Customs clearance to get diesel only

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative (WHTI)
This initiative establishes document requirements, for travel by land or sea, into the United States, from Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean and Bermuda [who were previously exempt]. Travel between the U.S., Puerto Rico, and the U.S. Virgin Islands is not affected. The goal is to strengthen border security.

There are reciprocal laws in the other countries under different names.


WRT to the OP, it may be possible for you to clear into the DR and the Bahamas without a passport, depending on the citizenship of those aboard, provided that they have the necessary documents. Again, this is important because there are some US citizens who do not qualify for a passport for various reasons, or who cannot obtain one in time, or who do not have it in their possession because it is off somewhere getting a visa stamp or has been sent for renewal or stolen or whatever.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Jammer

There are reciprocal laws in the other countries under different names.


WRT to the OP, it may be possible for you to clear into the DR and the Bahamas without a passport, depending on the citizenship of those aboard, provided that they have the necessary documents. Again, this is important because there are some US citizens who do not qualify for a passport for various reasons, or who cannot obtain one in time, or who do not have it in their possession because it is off somewhere getting a visa stamp or has been sent for renewal or stolen or whatever.

Just out of curiosity, aside from those who have had their passport confiscated as a bail condition or for not paying severely delinquent taxes, what other "various reasons" could a U.S. citizen not qualify for a passport but be allowed to travel outside the U.S.?

[contrail]

Well, I understand the OP's question, but I also understand grantmc's answer. I think that most people do not know how difficult their own country can be, when it comes to this sort of thing, and, in that ignorance, expect or hope it to be as easy, in other countries, as they IMAGINE it to be in their own. That goes for the US (I am a US citizen, by the way), as well, which can be as difficult as any country, and, since 9/11, maybe more difficult. A fair number of countries now require Passports, or equivalent, of US citizens, simply because the US requires those documents upon the US citizens' return. And the US, of which only 30% of its citizenry (up from a mere 15% just in recent times) is not short of those who are uninformed on these matters.



And, let's see....as an example, let's say you are a Brit, with a US Visa Waiver, and want to enter the USVI, from, let's say, the BVI, which is merely a few miles away. You can use the Visa Waiver on a commercial vessel, such as a ferry, but, no, not on a private one, like your own boat. Even if you are crew on said private boat. Therefore you need an actual Visa. And, where do you go for that? One would think that the Caribbean would have lots of countries with US Embassies or Consulates that could do this, but, no, you have to go all the way to Barbados! With an appointment booked way in advance. And, during Covid, you couldn't even do that.



So, it can be frustrating for all. And, whilst I can understand the OP's question, accumulated difficulties with dealing with US officials can certainly boil over in frustration to where someone could react to an American's appearance of asking for an exception. I always found it vexing when American charter guests questioned having to take the time to check in to the BVI ("Is it a different country?"). Did that happen often? Yup.



As for checking in for fuel, one must understand that to waive that means to either open one's borders to unimpeded travel by foreigners, or to deputize all the fuel dock attendants as Immigration, Customs, and Health officials. And that isn't likely, either in the country with the wall, or anywhere else.


Let's just acknowledge that the OP has had his question answered, that the answer may pose one of the many inconveniences of dealing with borders and bureaucracies, and leave it at that, without berating any of the respondents, whose personal experience many include frustrations unknown to others of us. Peace.

[rubberduck]

People keep saying 'of course you need to check in', 'if you need to ask' bla bla. But its not that simple. There are of course places in the world where some fuel docks are in special areas. Gibraltar is a great example of this. We were in spain and could just take the boat over fill up and go back. It was legal and exactly how they wanted you to do it.

In Bermuda, where i am now... plenty of super yachts have passed through come in and docked, fillled up and left. I doubt they checked in.

My guess would be people are correct that in the two places you mentioned youll need to check in however i think people are being presumptuous... why don't you just call their customs and ask if they say its possible you might need an agent to help coordinate but maybe it can be done. It would be better than listening to all the ya-hoo know it all's on this website.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by rubberduck

People keep saying 'of course you need to check in', 'if you need to ask' bla bla. But its not that simple. There are of course places in the world where some fuel docks are in special areas. Gibraltar is a great example of this. We were in spain and could just take the boat over fill up and go back. It was legal and exactly how they wanted you to do it.

In Bermuda, where i am now... plenty of super yachts have passed through come in and docked, fillled up and left. I doubt they checked in.

My guess would be people are correct that in the two places you mentioned youll need to check in however i think people are being presumptuous... why don't you just call their customs and ask if they say its possible you might need an agent to help coordinate but maybe it can be done. It would be better than listening to all the ya-hoo know it all's on this website.

Actually the use of duty free fuel ( or reduced duty ) in private boats whose owners are resident in the EU is illegal

[boatman61]

Yet the Spanish have been doing it for decades..
Blind eyes n all that.

[donradcliffe]

I recall there was a fuel barge in the strait between Indonesia and Singapore that sold the cheapest diesel around. I didn't know whose waters it was in and I didn't ask.

[Peeew]

My “go to” answer for questions like this is to contact the customs office of the country in question. I have done this with specific requests and the Bahamas has usually been very flexible under special circumstances to allow deviation from the norm. For me the key has been a clear explanation of what the situation is and a clear request for what I need. I print a copy of the response and present that when I am asked. Having a senior official’s name on a permission goes a long way with the local Bahamas customs offices.

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by rubberduck

In Bermuda, where i am now... plenty of super yachts have passed through come in and docked, fillled up and left. I doubt they checked in.

"I doubt they checked in." Which means: You actually have no idea. Yet you still feel free to offer advice that could get someone else thrown in jail and their boat impounded on the total absence of real information. Just what you THINK should be true... Good job.

The internet never ceases to amaze me...

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Just out of curiosity, aside from those who have had their passport confiscated as a bail condition or for not paying severely delinquent taxes, what other "various reasons" could a U.S. citizen not qualify for a passport but be allowed to travel outside the U.S.?

Certain unpaid debts. The thresholds are actually quite small ($2500, $0 in some cases). Noncompliance with a subpoena or arrest warrant even if from a jurisdiction far from home. Certain low-level and many more serious drug convictions. There are others. It is important to realize that there's bureaucracy and delays and mistakes behind all these. You could end up being unable to obtain a passport because you jumped fare on a subway in New York 20 years ago, moved to California the next day, and never actually received a summons. Or because someone with the same name didn't pay their child support.

With time and money this sort of thing can usually be straightened out. In some cases it takes an attorney and a willingness to travel to the jurisdiction in question for court appearances. There are people who conclude it isn't worth it.


I recall an old acquaintance who performed software maintenance on his company's HR system. He found it prudent to memorize his boss's social security number, date of birth, address, and so on. One day he was stopped for fishing without a license and after explaining that he did not have a wallet with him, he rattled off his boss's data.


His boss received a court summons. As I understand it, the fish & wildlife officer testified under oath that said boss was the individual he had encountered fishing without a license, now some months ago as the wheels of justice turn slowly. He was found guilty.

[PaulCrawhorn]

The State Dept banning you from obtaining a passport and/or confiscating your existing one, is as far as it goes, in practice that IS how the US gov "forbids you" from leaving

In reality you are free to leave the US (or whatever country), so long as you know what you're doing about how you will enter your target destination country.

I know plenty of deadbeat dads that have been "successful" in avoiding their obligations that way remaining in dozens if various jurisdictions where such formalities aren't so rigidly enforced.

Not saying this is OK nor recommending such measures, but it does happen.

[chrisr]

Originally Posted by donradcliffe

I recall there was a fuel barge in the strait between Indonesia and Singapore that sold the cheapest diesel around. I didn't know whose waters it was in and I didn't ask.

i wouldn't want to ask about the quality either ! likely comes from one of the inter-island tankers that have been hijacked...

cheers,

[Tupaia]

Originally Posted by contrail

And, let's see....as an example, let's say you are a Brit, with a US Visa Waiver, and want to enter the USVI, from, let's say, the BVI, which is merely a few miles away. You can use the Visa Waiver on a commercial vessel, such as a ferry, but, no, not on a private one, like your own boat. Even if you are crew on said private boat. Therefore you need an actual Visa. And, where do you go for that? One would think that the Caribbean would have lots of countries with US Embassies or Consulates that could do this, but, no, you have to go all the way to Barbados! With an appointment booked way in advance. And, during Covid, you couldn't even do that.

This more down to how it is administered than an actual visa issue. You can take the ferry from BVI to USVI get stamped in and then return to BVI by ferry and sail your private boat to USVI fully checked in as far as immigration is required to the US.



The very nice immigration lady even explained to us how this works and confirmed that it was entirely legal. It ensures responsibility for returning you to your place of origin if you are refused entry rests with a commercial carrier.


Gibraltar does not require check in to fuel but you cannot physically enter the country from the fuel dock. You are likely to be challenged by Port Control when entering Gibraltar waters regardless of whether you are planning to fuel or check in.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Certain unpaid debts. The thresholds are actually quite small ($2500, $0 in some cases). Noncompliance with a subpoena or arrest warrant even if from a jurisdiction far from home. Certain low-level and many more serious drug convictions. There are others. It is important to realize that there's bureaucracy and delays and mistakes behind all these. You could end up being unable to obtain a passport because you jumped fare on a subway in New York 20 years ago, moved to California the next day, and never actually received a summons. Or because someone with the same name didn't pay their child support.

With time and money this sort of thing can usually be straightened out. In some cases it takes an attorney and a willingness to travel to the jurisdiction in question for court appearances. There are people who conclude it isn't worth it.


I recall an old acquaintance who performed software maintenance on his company's HR system. He found it prudent to memorize his boss's social security number, date of birth, address, and so on. One day he was stopped for fishing without a license and after explaining that he did not have a wallet with him, he rattled off his boss's data.


His boss received a court summons. As I understand it, the fish & wildlife officer testified under oath that said boss was the individual he had encountered fishing without a license, now some months ago as the wheels of justice turn slowly. He was found guilty.

Per Title 22: Foreign Relations, PART 51—PASSPORTS, Subpart E — Denial, Revocation, and Restriction of Passports,
"§ 51.60 Denial and restriction of passports:
(b) The Department may refuse to issue a passport in any case in which the Department determines or is informed by competent authority that:

(1) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding Federal warrant of arrest for a felony, including a warrant issued under the Federal Fugitive Felon Act (18 U.S.C. 1073); or

(2) The applicant is subject to a criminal court order, condition of probation, or condition of parole, any of which forbids departure from the United States and the violation of which could result in the issuance of a Federal warrant of arrest, including a warrant issued under the Federal Fugitive Felon Act; or

(9) The applicant is the subject of an outstanding state or local warrant of arrest for a felony;"

None of the examples you listed were felonies, so none of them would keep one from getting a passport. You need to owe $2,500 or more in child support or generally owe the IRS if owe the IRS $50,000 or more and have them at the point where they're ready to seize your property with a lien or a levy to be prevented from getting a passport for debts.

If you have any code citations that show someone who jumped a subway can be prevented from getting a passport I'm sure we'd all be interested to see it, but absent that if you can't get a passport it's not an innocent small mistake and not something that one can't be bothered to rectify or can blame on "the bureaucracy".

[contrail]

Originally Posted by Tupaia

This more down to how it is administered than an actual visa issue. You can take the ferry from BVI to USVI get stamped in and then return to BVI by ferry and sail your private boat to USVI fully checked in as far as immigration is required to the US.



The very nice immigration lady even explained to us how this works and confirmed that it was entirely legal. It ensures responsibility for returning you to your place of origin if you are refused entry rests with a commercial carrier.


Gibraltar does not require check in to fuel but you cannot physically enter the country from the fuel dock. You are likely to be challenged by Port Control when entering Gibraltar waters regardless of whether you are planning to fuel or check in.

I sincerely doubt that what the "immigration lady" told you was legal, in fact, is, and having dealt with this countless times over seventeen years, that would not surprise me. Here is why: when you take your ferry back to the BVI, you have left the USVI. You have to re-enter the BVI to pick up your boat. A quick return spares you some of the paperwork, but it doesn't change the fact that you are now in the BVI. And that means you will have to depart the BVI, again, and re-enter the USVI, again, only this time on your own boat, which you can't do with a visa waiver.



I think you were the victim of wishful thinking, loose interpretation, or a misunderstanding, almost certainly.



Cheers
Tim