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Old 24-12-2017, 15:38   #1
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Cruising with a pacemaker?

I thought about putting this on the health sub-forum, but most of my questions have more to do with the boat equipment than the First Mate. First Mate just got a pacemaker. Late 60s, seemingly perfect health, not overweight, normal blood pressure, Yoga 4 or 5 times a week, one short period of funny feeling in the chest and putting it on a form (new to us Dr.) and some tests (no plugged arteries, no bad valves, bad internal electrical system) and a doctor saying "If it was up to him, he would put it in the next day". We asked about restrictions to travel and the cardiologist said that she just could not do arc welding. That sounded simple enough. A week after surgery at a follow up with the pacemaker tech, he starts telling us all of things to be careful of. The list was long and I think a lot was LAWYER SPEAK, but cb radios and police radios (maybe hand held VHF?), ham radios (SSB?) and the one that stuck out the most was alternators. Stay 3 or 4 feet from a running alternator. Our boat has the engine under a dinette seat. Your butt is about 3 inches from the alternator. The tech said to put her at the other end of the boat(obviously a single man). My questions are "have any of you had to modify a boat to make it safer for a pacemaker"? Would a lead liner in the engine box cut the EMF enough to make it safe? Could an engine box be enclosed in some kind of Faraday Cage? Could the coax from the SSB be run in a lead pipe, could the transmitter be enclosed in some kind of Faraday cage. We have talked to a few people with pacemakers and they say dont worry about any of it, but none of them sit 3 inches from an alternator or have a 150 watt SSB in their home kitchen. With many of the people on this forum in the retirement age group, I would hope to hear from someone with direct experience. This is all new to us. Thanks, ____Grant.
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Old 24-12-2017, 15:59   #2
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

Not personal experience, but I’ve also met people with pacemakers and they aren’t doing anything special. I wouldn’t boats are any more dangerous than land living
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Old 24-12-2017, 16:08   #3
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

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Not personal experience, but I’ve also met people with pacemakers and they aren’t doing anything special. I wouldn’t boats are any more dangerous than land living
In my experience ( as a professional welder ) I have heard of a few stories of ol timers being advised to give up the welding game , not many of them have and are still going strong ,,, I would think that part of it is easy to avoid , the rest I have no idea ,
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Old 24-12-2017, 17:31   #4
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Cruising with a pacemaker?

As an old oilfield welder, I can tell you the EMF off of a welder is an order of magnitude higher than just about anything, I’m talking about a couple of hundred amps arc within inches of your chest.
If a pacemaker can survive that, then surely the rest is easy?
If an alternator can get you, how do you drive?
Ref EMF, a friend in Tx lived very close to massive power transmission lines, you could hold a fluorescent tube in your hand and it would light.
Except maybe for the SSB, I would imagine that the EMF on a boat would be very small compared to land living.

Go back and ask the Doc specific questions, I would assume he is more educated than most any of us.
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Old 24-12-2017, 18:27   #5
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

Here is a link to a post about pacemakers and cruising from about a year ago:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...er-176030.html

In my post I reference a document from the manufacturer of my pacemaker that list the safe distances from various devices.

http://www.bostonscientific.com/cont...dy_PH_UK_S.pdf

It lists on page 30 to keep at least 24 inches away from running motors and alternators. My engine is under the table's seat and is probably 24 inches away from my pacemaker. I've never had an issue with it. It also list CB and police radio antennas at least 24 inches, the distance from the radio itself doesn't matter, the power is being radiated from the antenna.

There is also a post in that thread from a cardiologist that touches on RADAR units.
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Old 24-12-2017, 19:54   #6
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

25 years ago when I was trained to put in Pacemakers, no recollection of any items such as this. I haven't done pacemakers in over 10 years so maybe something different.

Some pacemakers can be placed in stand by mode with a (large) magnet applied to pacemaker (over the pacemaker pocket). I would think any magnetism in Alternator would be too far away.

On Johns Hopkins site, it suggest turning off engines when working on them (Which is probably a good idea to keep 10 fingers).

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/heal..._icd_85,P00227

Bottom line, I don't think any issues.
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Old 24-12-2017, 21:48   #7
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

The alternator in a car is not a problem. It is far enough away, but the alternator on our boat is right under your butt at the dinette. Hand held radios (police and cb) were mentioned so I wonder about a VHF. Ham radio was in the warning and I see no difference between ham and SSB. The tech seemed to know more about it than the Dr, but then he works for the pacemaker manufacturer and has to give all of the warnings. I suspect that much of it is LAWYER SPEAK, but I want to be sure before putting the First Mate in any danger. ____Grant.
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Old 25-12-2017, 04:10   #8
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
As an old oilfield welder, I can tell you the EMF off of a welder is an order of magnitude higher than just about anything, I’m talking about a couple of hundred amps arc within inches of your chest.
If a pacemaker can survive that, then surely the rest is easy?
If an alternator can get you, how do you drive?
Ref EMF, a friend in Tx lived very close to massive power transmission lines, you could hold a fluorescent tube in your hand and it would light.
Except maybe for the SSB, I would imagine that the EMF on a boat would be very small compared to land living.

Go back and ask the Doc specific questions, I would assume he is more educated than most any of us.


Go to the manufacturer of the pace maker and get a second opinion from a different cardiologist.
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Old 25-12-2017, 05:14   #9
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

sail more, run the engine less & get her as far away from it while running. (I suppose at rest the alternator isn't posing a threat)
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Old 25-12-2017, 06:37   #10
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

as long as first mate has no intimate dealings with magnets, like lying over one, there should be no issues.
my dad had long and healthy life with aicd and pacemaker installed in his body. there is not much a cardiac patient cannot do these days. just donot lean over body with a magnet in your pocket. donot allow mate to lean over a magnet with her body.
as magnets turn on and off pacemakers, magnets should be a no no in the environment of pacemaker.
my dad dealt with speakers for stereo, he played horn, he ran around in a rv, he DID everything.
he didnot work on engines. he never did that.
line your engine room with a reasonable liner..i think lead may be a lil over done.

btw, i have no qualifications. other than cardiology nursing at cedars sinai forever. investigative cardiology was fun.
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:06   #11
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

I’ve had a defibrillator with pacing since 2001 and don’t do anything special except I don’t put my cell phone in my left shirt pocket. I am on my third unit, no 1, recalled after about year and replaced. If you start feeling funny round n object, then move away from it. Mine made by Medtronic. In early years they said don’t go through metal detectors at airports. Now, with my third one, I go through them all the time.
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:17   #12
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

I should have asked if patient is "Pacemaker dependent", meaning every heartbeat is triggered by papermaker.

AS ZeeHag stated: If notices any particular symptoms, may need to keep more distance.

Certainly can reach out to pacemaker company (Medtronics, St Jude or other) and inquire about how much distance is required... I am sure some leagleze. (Remember when signs were on every cafeteria/break room about "Microwave in use. Pacemaker patients beware"... At Medtronics factory, there were no signs... When asked, answer was "no problems with pacemaker as long as you don't climb inside pacemaker."

Seek reassurance. Happy sailing!
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:35   #13
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

Her heart beat is normal most of the time, but skips a few beats at random times. It is actually titled HEART BLOCK and is a signal problem, not a plumbing problem. The pacemaker doesnt have a defib in it. I understand that most people live a very normal life with a pacemaker, but most people dont have an alternator under their butt, or a 150 watt SSB 2 feet away from you at a chart table. I am going to do some serious research on lead lining and Faraday cages and I am sure we can work this out safely. Since it is Christmas morning I WISH YOU ALL A MERRY CHRISTMAS and I am going to go get a second cup of coffee. Thanks, Grant.
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Old 25-12-2017, 07:54   #14
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

Good luck with your research, and please share the results. Here is a bit more about the ham radio to look at.

Pacemaker
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Old 25-12-2017, 08:07   #15
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Re: Cruising with a pacemaker?

Don, I just briefly looked thru that link and it is great. I will read each of the articles after I have recovered from the the afternoon feast. Thank You. ____Grant.
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