Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

[30yearslater]

Way to be a diplomat Jim Cate. Love it. I prowl various farcebook groups, Sailing, sailboat hitchhikers, and some of the others. I wouldn't have anything to do with fb if not for the request of the mob I have introduced to sailing. It was cheaper than Meetup for scheduling outings with greater levels of participation. Two of the gang are headed to Mexico to crew for three weeks down the coast. These groups are mobbed with those who are owner/cruisers and people who are looking for passage. This is why I contend there is a real uptick in the cruising lifestyle. Never before with the interwebs has it been easier to connect various sailors and sailor wannabes. The other plus to the community is the Youtube stars who are at the minimum provoking some thought about sailing to distant lands. We gray haired crowd had to rely on those antiquated things called books to inspire our imagination. I do see a lot of young 'uns with limited finances participating in these voyages. For those that want to there is a way without the responsibility or cost of ownership. It does look like this type of cruising fits the new demographic rather well.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Is cruising on the Great Lakes declining? As far as I know, there's wait lists on most clubs in our area and it seems that the planned reciprocal cruises that our club organizes are always popular.


More generally... I fear for the future when the abundance of craft built between 1970 and 1990 are finally too old to serve. Only the number of used craft makes it possible for us and many others to be able to own a boat. We're doing ok, but a new boat is still out of reach, unless we sold or mortgaged the house.

While the only Great Lakes I know are the Atlantic Ocean and the Med the truth is the same. Right now there is a shortage in good boats from the 90’s due to the poor economy in the early 90’s. Another hit was at 2001 and again in 2007-11.
But the boats depreciation cycle is even faster now with the loss of millennials interest in sailing, so let’s see. Agree the 70-80’s boats are not going to get a significant interest from buyers in 5 years or less - meaning close to zero Value. . Even now it is close to impossible to sell these.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by 30yearslater

Way to be a diplomat Jim Cate. Love it. I prowl various farcebook groups, Sailing, sailboat hitchhikers, and some of the others. I wouldn't have anything to do with fb if not for the request of the mob I have introduced to sailing. It was cheaper than Meetup for scheduling outings with greater levels of participation. Two of the gang are headed to Mexico to crew for three weeks down the coast. These groups are mobbed with those who are owner/cruisers and people who are looking for passage. This is why I contend there is a real uptick in the cruising lifestyle. Never before with the interwebs has it been easier to connect various sailors and sailor wannabes. The other plus to the community is the Youtube stars who are at the minimum provoking some thought about sailing to distant lands. We gray haired crowd had to rely on those antiquated things called books to inspire our imagination. I do see a lot of young 'uns with limited finances participating in these voyages. For those that want to there is a way without the responsibility or cost of ownership. It does look like this type of cruising fits the new demographic rather well.

Not sure I can agree. Yes, the web offers new ways to connect and experience but not necessarily encourage people to get a boat of their own and sail - not even a small one for few hours or for club racing....

[30yearslater]

Originally Posted by DeValency

Not sure I can agree. Yes, the web offers new ways to connect and experience but not necessarily encourage people to get a boat of their own and sail - not even a small one for few hours or for club racing....

I do believe we agree on the ownership detail DeValency. We also agree on the acquisition aspects reaching a critical level. I am seeing far more boats listed on the boat for sale sites that go back several years. Locally there are more boats being scrapped than sold. At some point, where is anybody's guess, this will result in so few boats the necessary adjustment to the number of people wanting to sail will also decline. I am somewhat encouraged that as the younger crowd exhibits more of a self actualization over material acquisition mentality the fractional ownership/rental boat market may actually become a viable business model. Can't say for sure when or how and could definitely be way out there but hope it does come to fruition.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by DeValency

Not a lost cause, just different interests and an economy that greatly made everything way more affordable, faster and accessible except with sailing... . We have right here in Boston the Courgeous Sailing Center - focuses at bringing ~1,000 kids every year into sailing at zero cost for their families (mostly from the lower socioeconomic class), I volounteer there and it is really fun - how many of these kids will become sailors for their lifetime....? - probably very few.

OMG, maybe only a few will ever become sailors but think of all the great leadership skills and confidence this is building in those kids, especially with the girls. I just love that name, too. So does it really matter if there is no longer a large segment of society who wants to go fringe? The millennials will create their own interests and hobbies that us oldsters will think are bogus, but who are we to judge? I think whatever they choose is their right. They're going to run the world when we're gone, of course, so they'll figure it out just fine.

[mglonnro]

I think the world is absolutely overwhelming with marketing and branding institutions telling young people "what to do".

There aren't any absolutes about what is right and wrong here, but surely we don't have to leave the definition of the meaning of life merely to those who want to sell something and profit?

I think our and future generations should be encouraged towards activities that give some peace and rest to the mind. Sailing fits the bill, so does reading books.

My few cents

[john61ct]

Paging Don Quixote de la Mancha. . .

Messing around on boats will of course always be there in one form or another, but

I think (hope) trying to ensure the survival of humanity's future generations will become an ever-more-pressing priority, if not that of their own directly threatened families, lots sooner than we think.

And they will curse us past generations of heedless inequality-tolerating fossil-fuel addicts

Hark, villains! I will grind your bones to dust.
— William Shakespeare, Titus Andronicus

[Polux]

In Europe finally it seems that sales are recovering from the 2008 crash.

Sailboats with more than 10 meters and cats are selling better and in several markets there was an increase in sales in 2017 and 2018.

"Globalement, le marché de la voile reste morose (sauf pour les plus de 10 mètres dont les ventes restent dynamiques et les catamarans)

https://www.argusdubateau.fr/actuali...-apres-la-cris

In Spain the number of registers on pleasure boats increased almost 10% in 2017.
http://www.lemarin.fr/secteurs-activ...n-nette-hausse

And as it had been pointed out that the anchorages and marinas are more crowded now than before and their number is bigger.

What I believe we are seeing is a huge increase in charter boat numbers and
the sales of private cruising yachts almost steady.

The costs of owning a boat have increased as well as devaluation due to the increasing number of new boats so it makes more sense to do charter and own a boat only when one retires...and with the age of retiring going to 67 years of age I bet we will see the charter market continuing to grow.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by gamayun

OMG, maybe only a few will ever become sailors but think of all the great leadership skills and confidence this is building in those kids, especially with the girls. I just love that name, too. So does it really matter if there is no longer a large segment of society who wants to go fringe? The millennials will create their own interests and hobbies that us oldsters will think are bogus, but who are we to judge? I think whatever they choose is their right. They're going to run the world when we're gone, of course, so they'll figure it out just fine.

****
Yes and also add the kids with serious disabilities including the blind... a real inspiration on the Rhods 19....

Will never judge the new generations of millennials or baby boomers getting into retirement these years but not necessarily for sailing but for golfing in Florida.... (OMG &#128561.

The world has changed - I’m trying to work on some hi tech solutions to make sailing even easier, faster to sail out and return in and communicate with their social networks. Lone sailors is a diminishing breed. And I see an increase in the boat sharing and clubs businesses. That’s good - but not working for me. I’m not sharing my beloved ones under any condition...

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by Polux

In Europe finally it seems that sales are recovering from the 2008 crash.

Sailboats with more than 10 meters and cats are selling better and in several markets there was an increase in sales in 2017 and 2018.

"Globalement, le marché de la voile reste morose (sauf pour les plus de 10 mètres dont les ventes restent dynamiques et les catamarans)

https://www.argusdubateau.fr/actuali...-apres-la-cris

In Spain the number of registers on pleasure boats increased almost 10% in 2017.
http://www.lemarin.fr/secteurs-activ...n-nette-hausse

And as it had been pointed out that the anchorages and marinas are more crowded now than before and their number is bigger.

What I believe we are seeing is a huge increase in charter boat numbers and
the sales of private cruising yachts almost steady.

The costs of owning a boat have increased as well as devaluation due to the increasing number of new boats so it makes more sense to do charter and own a boat only when one retires...and with the age of retiring going to 67 years of age I bet we will see the charter market continuing to grow.

These are good news on the EU market where the Med countries were the first to go under and in general still there... The new sharing economy and costs will definitely drive more sailing clubs and charters. Both don’t work for me.... maybe as I owned boats for all my life but as I wrote in this trail I don’t share my important beloved things in life....
Anyway, the more boats we’ll see around - the better. Social sailing will be the only way to maintain this fantastic sport and lifestyle.

[john61ct]

The top .00x% of the business is certainly booming.

But IMO as relevant to this discussion as the market for spaceships.

[Pizzazz]

Originally Posted by cyan

We had an Apple II plus and a 360K floppy with Castle Wolfenstein. Good for 30 minutes. Not hours. 3 TV channels. Show me the power tools...

Now, you are not fair. You could play Bolo or Crossfire for days on end on the Apple II. I still remember my college days when one time we played Bolo for 2.5 days straight. No sleep, no food, just bathroom breaks. No need to disparage the good old days

Ps. I did get your point though.

[Jammer]

No one has mentioned the investment tax credit of the 1970s which heavily subsidized the purchase of new boats (and new aircraft). This distorted the market for years.


Another factor affecting both cruising and aviation is a much less permissive regulatory environment, combined with reduced public support for the activity. The overall loss of marina slips mentioned upthread is part of it, but there's more to it, with an increasingly adversarial customs/immigration environment, greater restrictions on shore use, more heavily armed and prominent law enforcement, and a lack of interest on the part of (U.S.) coastal towns and cities in accommodating transients.


But there is also a broader trend towards people seeking out a greater variety of experiences rather than a greater variety of things. There is also a broader trend towards day activities rather than overnight ones.

[Davy J]

Sailboat manufacturing may be in decline, but good luck finding a slip in south or southwest Florida. Waiting lists almost every where.

Our marina/boatyard is splashing multiple boats daily. I don't know where they are all going, there are no available slips here.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by pcmm

Don't want to start a Tangent, but if you're an elementary Teacher in the public sector, you're a member of the ETFO, They'r the bargaining unit between the teachers and the schoolboard/gov't. If a Teacher has 11 years of experience, their salary is just shy ($500 short) of being 6 figures!! Public wages on average are now 13% higher than the comparable private sector jobs (before factoring in the benefits!)



Have a look here:



http://dpsuoecta.ca/wp-content/uploa...7-Aug-2019.pdf

That is California right?
My Wife retired from teaching in Ga. no union, and making a little over 40K a year with a few extra things like English as a second language, Gifted etc.
She can draw on her teacher retirement when she reaches 65 or so, but not SS, as they don’t pay into that, and her teacher retirement is less than SS would be.
She did work 180 days a year, but way over 8 hour days, and that 180 days a year is getting spread over about 10 months, with a big push for year round schooling.