Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Kim Gregory

For me it was the songs of the day, forecasting the doom of civilization. I wanted to be among the survivors, to pick my new home from the least radio-active part of the planet. I sailed away in 1981, lucky for all of us, it did not happen.

"Wooden Ships" was a song written and composed by David Crosby, Paul Kantner, and Stephen Stills. It was written and composed in 1968 in Fort Lauderdale, Florida, on a boat named the Mayan, owned by Crosby, who composed the music, while Kantner and Stills wrote most of the lyrics.

"Wooden Ships" was written at the height of the Vietnam War, a time of great tension between the United States and the Soviet Union, nuclear-armed rivals in the Cold War. It has been likened to Tom Lehrer's "We Will All Go Together When We Go" and Barry McGuire's "Eve of Destruction," in that it describes the consequences of an apocalyptic nuclear war.

"And it's a fair wind blowin' warm
Out of the south over my shoulder
Guess I'll set a course and go"

I remember the song "Southern Cross", from that era. (speaking of Crosby)
That an such an emotional breakup with a woman could affect a guy so deeply that he simply checks out, sailing from California to Tahiti, realizing self truths along the way... was always in the back of my mind. As fate would have it, eventually it happened to me that way, and a soul-finding journey was the only cure. (minus a bit of the "80 feet of waterline")

[gamayun]

Has there ever been an older generation that did not lament the lost cause of the younger generation...? This melancholy is so last century.

[cyan]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Has there ever been an older generation that did not lament the lost cause of the younger generation...? This melancholy is so last century.

Aw come on Gama.
Why ya gotta be a hater?
Of course every generation will romanticise events that occurred in its youth. In this case there was an entire 20 years of cruiser frenzy: the 1970s, 1980s. THAT warrants consideration in a thread exploring the rise and fall of the cruiser fad, no?
Tell us what YOU were thinking in those adventure-yearning times. Oh, wait, I know- "I wonder if I could sail to Hawaii without shrouds"
Right?
Riiiight?

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by cyan

Aw come on Gama.
Why ya gotta be a hater?
Of course every generation will romanticise events that occurred in its youth. In this case there was an entire 20 years of cruiser frenzy: the 1970s, 1980s. THAT warrants consideration in a thread exploring the rise and fall of the cruiser fad, no?
Tell us what YOU were thinking in those adventure-yearning times. Oh, wait, I know- "I wonder if I could sail to Hawaii without shrouds"
Right?
Riiiight?

Cripes, "hater"?! I hope my comments don't come across as hateful. I prefer to think of myself as sardonically pragmatic. And from that perspective, it seems to me there are a TON of cruisers out there, young and old. I can only hope they don't overrun all the good places before I get old enough to retire and take off full-time. Since I was barely out of diapers in the 70s, then changing my kid's diapers in the 80s, I don't think I can properly romanticize about the cruiser frenzy back then. I even question whether there was a cruiser fad at all or whether it was just touted in all the glossy magazines as such. I also think we humans just naturally tend to hew nostalgic, which warps reality for the way it was as well as the way it is. My motto is to keep a young mind and it'll never steer you wrong.

[Jim Cate]

How could there have been a cruising frenzy in the 70s and 80s? Youtube hadn't been invented, and farcebook equally absent. Nope, no cruising back then!

Jim (who did his first month long cruise in a Catalina 22 in 1972)

[30yearslater]

A bit late to the conversation, but let's try rephrasing the OP's lament. Model Railroaders: A Dying Breed or perhaps Model Airplanes: A Dying Hobby. I'm sure many of us had our Lionel trains or Guillows airplanes years ago. Yet I don't see people pondering the demise of these hobbies other than perhaps the few who really enjoy such things. So too with cruising sailors. Those who take their hobby to the level of permanent cruising have always been the rarest. In fact with the advent of Youtube there seems to be more people checking out of the wage slave lifestyle and joining the sub culture of full time cruising. Yes it is a subculture and I don't mean that in any derogatory sense. It was always the extreme few who chose to chuck it all and find joy in the deprivation that sailing extreme distances constantly brings. I suspect most 'cruisers' are similar to myself where the majority daysail with some offshore distance sailing thrown in for good measure. The real hardcore cruisers are still there as they always have been and it looks at least to me they will remain. Bat$hit crazy but damn fine people just the same.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

How could there have been a cruising frenzy in the 70s and 80s? Youtube hadn't been invented, and farcebook equally absent. Nope, no cruising back then!

Jim (who did his first month long cruise in a Catalina 22 in 1972)

So Jim (and Ann), what say you? More? Fewer? About the same number of bat$hit crazy people? I completely agree it's a minority and an off-beat subculture. I don't mean that as an oxymoron either -- even my friends with boats don't have any interest in doing it as a lifestyle.

[DeValency]

To me, these are disturbing, not new, facts. I sail few times a week and in multiple countries. I race in New England and apart from the ocean and land views I love to see more boats around me, sometimes compete on a 30 min cruising course.... just for fun. - I like the social side of sailing on my own boat and around me.

And this is the only way to keep younger generations interested in sailing.

These are the socioeconomics that changed all that. For example:
• Entertaiment is much cheaper these days
• Gyms are better equipped easier to access and are way affordable plus the socials around it.
• Travel is easy, low cost and the internet upgraded the horizons, accessibility at a much lower cost.

And as of the ecomical crisis of 1994, 2000 and the big recession of 2007 the economy of the sailing world never returned to what it was. Unlike the “new economy” industries, it takes 5-10 years to develop a single new design of a boat and bring it to serial production. It costs much more these days, where engineering skills are focused at the hi tech industries - for a good reason - I’m part of it myself...

And the ongoing costs of owning a boat have sky rocketed. Why?
• Real estate prices went up. And I personally hate mooring and millennials hate it even more. When docking costs are now x5 vs the 90’s, fewer people can afford it.
• Insurance, repairs etc. all became way more expensive

The only good news are about our electronics and communication! Way better, cheaper, interactive!

So, the boats we can see that really survived the years are: Easy to sail for quick few hours fun time, Better equipped, going quickly out of docks, stay connected to the internet anytime, anywhere, comes from serial production lines. So that their cost and delivery times can stay sane....

Yes, there is the segment of custom boats, mega yachts etc. It will remain small but if it can attract young people to sailing - that’s great as well.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by 30yearslater

A bit late to the conversation, but let's try rephrasing the OP's lament. Model Railroaders: A Dying Breed or perhaps Model Airplanes: A Dying Hobby. I'm sure many of us had our Lionel trains or Guillows airplanes years ago. Yet I don't see people pondering the demise of these hobbies other than perhaps the few who really enjoy such things. So too with cruising sailors. Those who take their hobby to the level of permanent cruising have always been the rarest. In fact with the advent of Youtube there seems to be more people checking out of the wage slave lifestyle and joining the sub culture of full time cruising. Yes it is a subculture and I don't mean that in any derogatory sense. It was always the extreme few who chose to chuck it all and find joy in the deprivation that sailing extreme distances constantly brings. I suspect most 'cruisers' are similar to myself where the majority daysail with some offshore distance sailing thrown in for good measure. The real hardcore cruisers are still there as they always have been and it looks at least to me they will remain. Bat$hit crazy but damn fine people just the same.

+1

I think those who sailed over the horizon for long periods have always been the extreme exception, as compared to the mass of boat owners. So too with the “drop out” or “back to the earth” groups of the hippie-dippier 60s and 70s (btw, I’m often amused of being a hippy ). Extremes get a lot of press, but they rarely represent the majority.

That said, I stand by my thesis that cruising as a lifestyle has peaked, and will decline significantly as the Baby Boom generation ages out. Thin’s demographics data shows it. I say it’s mostly about economics and security. It’s all in the data, which is easily available to anyone who looks.

The younger generation simply aren’t as wealthy, nor as secure, than the blip that was the generations following WWII. I say “blip” based on the world of Thomas Piketty and others, who show that this form of oligarchical economic structure that we are (have) returned to is really the long term norm. The exception was during the time when ’the rising tide did lift all boats.’

On a purely selfish cruising level, I’m rather pleased with this future. I plan to be one of those "extreme exceptions" for a while yet — and I hate crowds, so all good.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Has there ever been an older generation that did not lament the lost cause of the younger generation...? This melancholy is so last century.

Not a lost cause, just different interests and an economy that greatly made everything way more affordable, faster and accessible except with sailing... . We have right here in Boston the Courgeous Sailing Center - focuses at bringing ~1,000 kids every year into sailing at zero cost for their families (mostly from the lower socioeconomic class), I volounteer there and it is really fun - how many of these kids will become sailors for their lifetime....? - probably very few.

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by gamayun

So Jim (and Ann), what say you? More? Fewer? About the same number of bat$hit crazy people? I completely agree it's a minority and an off-beat subculture. I don't mean that as an oxymoron either -- even my friends with boats don't have any interest in doing it as a lifestyle.

Actually, I dunno! We don't seem to meet as many lifers as we used to... new ones, that is, for we do encounter a few old friends as we meander around. But, we are mostly sailing in a more restricted venue than we used to. Age and the tyranny of medical appointments has limited our real offshore ventures for the last few years.

To be honest, I haven't paid all that much attention to the numbers. Plenty of coastal sailors here in Oz, and a few overseas visitors that pop up. Just met two recent arrivals from Alaska here in the Pittwater... fairly young folks and only a brief meeting, so don't know much about them. However, looks like one of the boats is already flying a local broker's flag and is on the market. Australia hasn't attracted nearly as many long termers as NZed does, and for some years now. It has a reputation for governmental unfriendliness, partly deserved, and I think that has discouraged some folks from coming here, and thus my view is perhaps distorted in a parochial way.

So, I can't offer any real intelligence on the question. I do agree that the number of lifers has always been small, and if they were to disappear entirely it wouldn't distort the sailing economy very much at all!

I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens...

Jim

[cyan]

Originally Posted by DeValency

I race in New England and apart from the ocean and land views I love to see more boats around me, sometimes compete on a 30 min cruising course.... just for fun. - I like the social side of sailing on my own boat and around me.

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I think those who sailed over the horizon for long periods have always been the extreme exception, as compared to the mass of boat owners.

I'm one of those weekly racers... but only until factors such as work and aging parents can be dodged enough to allow an exit. What I find interesting is the absolute lack of such adventure dreams among our race crew. I think they're getting tired of hearing my typical rail speech on the upwind legs...
"3 or 4 days THAT way and we are in Cabo, 3 or 4 weeks THAT way and we are in Tahiti."
Most comments and expressions I receive indicate to me that almost NONE of those sailors would ever THINK of spending many days at sea on a craft about the size of a small family camper, just to enjoy beautiful distant shores. (maybe 1 crewmember out of 8) Admittedly this is a small sample size, but it has me thinking that I might be an outlier: one whose love of sailing is linked to a love of cruising... happily racing and coastal cruising for now, but longing for the horizon.
Perhaps cruisers have always been on the fringe of common sailors.
A different breed?

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by gamayun

So Jim (and Ann), what say you? More? Fewer? About the same number of bat$hit crazy people? I completely agree it's a minority and an off-beat subculture. I don't mean that as an oxymoron either -- even my friends with boats don't have any interest in doing it as a lifestyle.

Lifestyle as a way to enjoy free time (or make the time...) with family and friends, is what I mean. Can be for just few hours, a day, weekend and maybe 2-3 a year fir a week or two. For that, to my taste, a 40’+ modern and comfy easy cruising boat is acceptable. For the brutal sailing, my Farr 40 get me enough fun in our short NE racing season.

The days for frugal life on a small boat are mostly over. I never even wanted to try it for a single night. I had enough camping in my military service.... ��
For me, only a 80’++ modern mega yacht would justify permanently living on (and under) board.

[DeValency]

Originally Posted by cyan

I'm one of those weekly racers... but only until factors such as work and aging parents can be dodged enough to allow an exit. What I find interesting is the absolute lack of such adventure dreams among our race crew. I think they're getting tired of hearing my typical rail speech on the upwind legs...
"3 or 4 days THAT way and we are in Cabo, 3 or 4 weeks THAT way and we are in Tahiti."
Most comments and expressions I receive indicate to me that almost NONE of those sailors would ever THINK of spending many days at sea on a craft about the size of a small family camper, just to enjoy beautiful distant shores. (maybe 1 crewmember out of 8) Admittedly this is a small sample size, but it has me thinking that I might be an outlier: one whose love of sailing is linked to a love of cruising... happily racing and coastal cruising for now, but longing for the horizon.
Perhaps cruisers have always been on the fringe of common sailors.
A different breed?

*******
It is the new more sensible breed. We have jobs, family, friends and so much more we like. We want to stay connected and enjoy what the city can offer us when we want and quickly sail with all the above (including work!) when possible in a quick 10 min. process. For me, that’s life at its best.

And when I retire.... maybe in 30 years... 😳 I can even sail for a few months if the right crew is on board with me... and it still need to be on a serious 45’+ fun modern boat with all the amenities possible (except the jacuzzi... &#128526

[Lake-Effect]

Is cruising on the Great Lakes declining? As far as I know, there's wait lists on most clubs in our area and it seems that the planned reciprocal cruises that our club organizes are always popular.


More generally... I fear for the future when the abundance of craft built between 1970 and 1990 are finally too old to serve. Only the number of used craft makes it possible for us and many others to be able to own a boat. We're doing ok, but a new boat is still out of reach, unless we sold or mortgaged the house.