Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by Hasbeen

I can't imagine how anyone could consider a trip up or down the US east coast was cruising. Motoring most of the way from marina berth to marina berth is more like a delivery trip up an interstate highway than cruising. Still I suppose we take what we can get.

I see it as the opposite.

Dictionary Definition: to sail about touching at a series of ports

If you do 3000 miles in a month with no destinations in route...that's a delivery.

If you do 1000miles and see 100 destinations in route...that's cruising.

[a64pilot]

Cruising is a lot like “Blue Water”
It means completely different things to different people, and that’s OK. People that do the Great Loop aren’t any more or less cruisers than anyone else. The whole point is to be enjoyable, and different people enjoy different things.

[john61ct]

Originally Posted by cyan

In the US, anybody and everybody can get a college degree these days, making the “suppressed underclass” an obsolete gripe regarding higher education. The modern gripe is huge student debt, which is financially strangling many new grads- a real problem.

Yes, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

The biggest issue is the cost of the degree to the student or their parents.

With 100% free tuition as a right of all citizens, private institutions being either banned or disdained by employers, the issues I point out are not as dire.

Education should not have any profit motive, including administrators should not have power to expand their bureaucracies' percentage of tuition costs.

When the healthiest economy requires only 10-20% of the population to be actually working, we need as a society to figure out a healthier set of activities for "the unnecessariat" than what we currently provide.

[Mike OReilly]

One of the main reasons we are cruising Newfoundland for the next few seasons is to delay the (seemingly) inevitable journey down south. Most of what I read from you folks who travel the NA east coast and the caribbean is how busy and crowded it all is. I have no desire to cruise with a crowd.

[laika]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

One of the main reasons we are cruising Newfoundland for the next few seasons is to delay the (seemingly) inevitable journey down south. Most of what I read from you folks who travel the NA east coast and the caribbean is how busy and crowded it all is. I have no desire to cruise with a crowd.

There are still plenty of sleepy little villages on the US east coast to duck in and out of. Tho there will be certain areas where the crowds are unavoidable.

Outside of a few "major" hubs, the bahamas are a wild turquoise abyss. You could get lost for years there. Even the southside of georgetown, exumas you could linger for weeks only seeing the occasional fishing skiff.

Overall, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by laika

There are still plenty of sleepy little villages on the US east coast to duck in and out of. Tho there will be certain areas where the crowds are unavoidable.

Outside of a few "major" hubs, the bahamas are a wild turquoise abyss. You could get lost for years there. Even the southside of georgetown, exumas you could linger for weeks only seeing the occasional fishing skiff.

Overall, I think you will be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks laika, it’s good to hear this other side. So much of what I read here is people dealing with crowded anchorages, or imposed mooring fields. Bays full of noisy boats with stereos blasting and generators running all hours. No thanks.

Others have said the Bahamas is a place to go for those seeking wilderness. I’m sure we’ll spend as much time as we can there as we pass south. But for now, I’m loving the north (except for the winters ).

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

One of the main reasons we are cruising Newfoundland for the next few seasons is to delay the (seemingly) inevitable journey down south. Most of what I read from you folks who travel the NA east coast and the caribbean is how busy and crowded it all is. I have no desire to cruise with a crowd.

You've been misinformed. Europe offers much more, so why don't you head east instead?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

You've been misinformed. Europe offers much more, so why don't you head east instead?

We’re thinking about that as well. My concern over your way is cost. Northern Europe looks pretty good for our kind of cruising, but it also looks pricy, as do large parts of the Med.

Can a frugal cruiser travel Europe? (I guess I should start a new thread…)

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

I see it as the opposite.

Dictionary Definition: to sail about touching at a series of ports

If you do 3000 miles in a month with no destinations in route...that's a delivery.

If you do 1000miles and see 100 destinations in route...that's cruising.

In that case a friend of mine delivers his boat to the Azores every Spring then cruises to Madeira and on to the Canaries for Autumn then delivers it back to the Caribe in December where he does a bit till Spring and so it goes..
Mike.. it is possible to budget cruise the Med and be far from the maddening crowd.. just need selective planning and knowledge of the charter hotspots..
Beer a buck a bottle, decent wine a couple or 3.. less if you buy by the litre at bodegas and take your own jugs.
Never shop or eat frontline.. go fourth line where the locals hang out.. SE Spain has free tapas with every beer or glass of wine.. Greece is fantastic away from airports that Ryanair and Easyjet fly to.. Worth the visit.
The North is more expensive.. just Google minimum wages to find the best for you.. eg, Portugal €525/mth.

[Bob Morane]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

We’re thinking about that as well. My concern over your way is cost. Northern Europe looks pretty good for our kind of cruising, but it also looks pricy, as do large parts of the Med.

Can a frugal cruiser travel Europe? (I guess I should start a new thread…)

Sailing Kittiwake has been sailing the med in high season last year and did a video report. They are on the frugal side of things I believe and pretty close to what I want to do.

They ended up spending on average 600 pounds a month (around 800 US?) , so definitely possible.

Edit : For clarification, their cruising ground were, south coast of Spain, Portugal, Balearic Islands and Sardinia I believe.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2xwbSzVwZw&t=2s

[Beau.Vrolyk]

Originally Posted by john61ct

Yes, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear.

The biggest issue is the cost of the degree to the student or their parents.

With 100% free tuition as a right of all citizens, private institutions being either banned or disdained by employers, the issues I point out are not as dire.

Education should not have any profit motive, including administrators should not have power to expand their bureaucracies' percentage of tuition costs.

When the healthiest economy requires only 10-20% of the population to be actually working, we need as a society to figure out a healthier set of activities for "the unnecessariat" than what we currently provide.

I believe that there are a number of mistaken premises in these comments.

1) While many schools, like Cal. State Northridge, where I went require tuition. But, the most expensive Ivy League and places like Stanford are "needs blind", meaning that if you get in, they will insure you can pay the tuition or they'll wave it. There is also a trend highlighted by Bloomberg's recent donation of over $1b to insure that many more people can get the money they need. One way or another most motivated folks can find a way to either get their education paid for, or finance it. Yes, a number of people do foolish things, like take on too much student debt. But, that foolishness should be put in perspective. After all, only something like 10% of adults in their 50s and 60s have more than a years worth of living expenses saved up, but they are carrying massive credit card and home mortgage debt which was primarily used to purchase luxuries. So, the students aren't the problem, it's much worse than that.

2) It is simply not true that "the healthiest economy requires only 10-20% of the population to be working". That's painfully wrong. I'm guessing that you're only considering things like building a house or growing food as "working", and not including being a musician or a poet as "working. That's simply wrong. The marketplace does a great job of rewarding all sorts of work with reasonable pay, even sailors, if they fill a need which customers are willing to pay for. To claim that this isn't "working" is more than a little presumptuous. I'd further note that when we have as few as 10% of the population which wishes to work unemployed the economy slows way down and we have a serious problem. I'd suggest that your view of "a healthier set of activities" is simply your opinion and not one that the vast majority of people agree with. Consider that the woman who wrote the Harry Potter books did so while she was on the dole in the UK. The results have made her fabulously wealthy and have pumped billions through the economy of the US and the rest of the world funding tens of thousands of people's income. Was JK Rowling "working" when she wrote the Harry Potter books?

3) While I agree with you, that 100% free education would be a terrific thing to see happen, I probably have a very different reason for holding that opinion. IMHO, providing free education is the absolute best investment we can make in our country. It is much more fundamental and powerful than a strong military or building better roads. Studies in California have proven that for every dollar the State of CA has invested in the University of California system the state has received over $15 in return from increased taxes paid by the person who graduated, and that return on investment happens in only 10 years. I know of VERY few investments that can give anyone a 15:1 return on investment in 10 years; but education can. Sadly, some folks believe that these sorts of investments are morally wrong in some way, something I could not disagree with more.

Just a few thoughts you might consider.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

We’re thinking about that as well. My concern over your way is cost. Northern Europe looks pretty good for our kind of cruising, but it also looks pricy, as do large parts of the Med.

Can a frugal cruiser travel Europe? (I guess I should start a new thread…)

We find the Med much cheaper than the US. I get by on less than 15 euros per day, and never go in to marinas. I just spent $9000 to keep our boat in Maine for seven months. Italy costs me 1800 euros for the same seven months at a much nicer marina with security. The weather stinks in Maine and I can sail all winter long if I like in Italy.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

One of the main reasons we are cruising Newfoundland for the next few seasons is to delay the (seemingly) inevitable journey down south. Most of what I read from you folks who travel the NA east coast and the caribbean is how busy and crowded it all is. I have no desire to cruise with a crowd.

We say that to keep people away, it works especially well with the Canadians

[cyan]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We find the Med much cheaper than the US. I get by on less than 15 euros per day, and never go in to marinas. I just spent $9000 to keep our boat in Maine for seven months. Italy costs me 1800 euros for the same seven months at a much nicer marina with security. The weather stinks in Maine and I can sail all winter long if I like in Italy.

That sounds much different than our 60-80 Euro/night Italy marina average for a 40-footer, much more in July/August, and even higher on the Italian West coast. Maybe they saw us coming?

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

We find the Med much cheaper than the US. I get by on less than 15 euros per day, and never go in to marinas. I just spent $9000 to keep our boat in Maine for seven months. Italy costs me 1800 euros for the same seven months at a much nicer marina with security. The weather stinks in Maine and I can sail all winter long if I like in Italy.

Thanks, you got me thinkin'. We’re still planning to be in NFLD for the next couple of years at least. But after that…? I’d like to cross over to the Pacific and head up to the PNW eventually, so maybe we can plan to get to Panama using the long route.

BTW, if anyone is looking for inexpensive boating, come to Corner Brook. We pay ~$1,100 CND per year (~$900 USD or 730 Euro), and that gives us launch, haul, winter storage, mast storage and a dock for the season. Electricity and water all included. And no crowded anchorages. Only down side is you need good foulies and be willing to sail some ugly seas at times.