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Old 16-11-2018, 20:30   #271
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Yeah, I contemplated the tiny mobile thing, but worked out I'd need a 4x4 in order to get far enough away from the bogans with their boomboxes and generators.

We don't have a huge range of 4x4s in Oz, especially not in vans, so am semi-settled on a Mitsubishi Delica LWB, 2.8 turbo-diesel, with an added 'pop-top' roof for full standing headroom when parked up.

I've seen LandCruiser Troopies with pop-top, but the living space is miniscule.

At least with a Deli it has the internal volume of a Hiace or similar (the normal pop-top 2WD option) but also has walk-thru from front seats into cabin.

And apart from head gasket/overheating issues, the Mitsi is not a bad donk.

I'm kinda hopeful someone else brings out something similar (and imports it to Oz) as the Mitsis have never been an official import, so they are relatively rare.

An OKA would be a better option, except for the ruinously expensive cost to buy one. A modern version of a LandRover 101 forward-control might be a good option too, if only someone's military would order one...

Another option I've seen was the (extremely rare like hens teeth rare) Toyota Coaster 4WD bus. 4.2L turbo-diesel, and essentially LandCruiser running gear under a 14-seat bus body.

Go anywhere RV.

Call 'em 'the cruiser's land yacht' if it makes you feel better.

Now back on topic...
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Old 17-11-2018, 18:03   #272
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Mitsubishi Delica LWB... LandCruiser Troopies ... OKA ... LandRover 101...Toyota Coaster
-sigh- You get the coolest vehicles down there
If I was stupid-rich I'd fly to Europe and get a Land Rover Defender 110, but since I'm not, I've made do with a Jeep YJ, and for the last 11 years a Nissan Xterra, which has been a great vehicle and perfect hauler for our current trailerable sailboat.

(so there, I've brought it 'round to cruising again)

For retirement it could be neat to get a small capable "motorhome" type vehicle like some you mentioned, towing a microcruiser.

Are cruising sailbats a dying breed? I am very fearful of what will happen when the current selection of good used boats dries up, cos you have to pretty well off to buy new these days.

One world trend that's also concerning: there's a growing backlash over "overtouristing" - the locals in many popular destinations are complaining about the numbers of tourists... even though the tourism is often an important industry. I wonder if this pushback could extend to the popular cruising grounds?
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Old 17-11-2018, 18:29   #273
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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...Are cruising sailbats a dying breed? I am very fearful of what will happen when the current selection of good used boats dries up, cos you have to pretty well off to buy new these days.
Interesting Ö I wonder if there is any data on the current stock of cruising type of sailboats out there? Who would, or could, track such data?

My sense is, itís going to be a long time before the current stock of boats drops significantly. As far as Iíve read, no one really knows the age limit of fibreglass boats. There are still tons of good old boats out there, and I donít see them dropping off very fast.

For example, my boat is now 41 years old. They built about 50 Rafiki-37s. Through no effort Iíve personally become aware of at least 1/2 of them. Itís likely there are plenty more that Iíve not connected with. So conservatively Iíd say at least 2/3rd are still plying the oceans blue. Thatís a pretty low attrition rate.

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One world trend that's also concerning: there's a growing backlash over "overtouristing" - the locals in many popular destinations are complaining about the numbers of tourists... even though the tourism is often an important industry. I wonder if this pushback could extend to the popular cruising grounds?
From some of the discussion I run across here it seems there is a pushback in some areas. Anchoring limits, black and even grey water restrictions, mooring fields to control numbers, special taxes, and rising national entrance fees.
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Old 17-11-2018, 19:43   #274
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Iím 61. My kids are 22 and 25. I could be grumpy about them and their age cohort. Then again my parents could have been grumpy about me and my sibs.
From 20 BC Horace:
ďOur sires' age was worse than our grandsires'. We, their sons, are more
worthless than they; so in our turn we shall give the world a progeny yet more
corrupt.Ē

I happen to think that there are many amazing young people in the world today.
My son was born in 85 and my daughter in 89. I think they are much better than me.
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Old 17-11-2018, 21:19   #275
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Beau.. I do agree. Only I have found cruising anchorages many times more crowded than my previous visits in the 70s, 80s, 90s and more recently.
Same wide range of ages and finances, but a lot more mega rich cruisers.
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Old 18-11-2018, 05:52   #276
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Beau.. I do agree. Only I have found cruising anchorages many times more crowded than my previous visits in the 70s, 80s, 90s and more recently.
Same wide range of ages and finances, but a lot more mega rich cruisers.
I find these great anchorages filled not with cruisers, but with new docks, new moorings and new regulations prohibiting anchoring.
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Old 18-11-2018, 15:21   #277
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

I know everybody on this subject is looking a millennials and boating but with all the talk about collage grads I didi a bit of research and am adding ithe breakdown on education.

From Pew research investigation on Collage, education and money the numbers are not as rosy as we like to think. What their research found was just how rarified a collage degree is but also how few people end up working in a profession that even requires a professional degree.

Of 100 high school graduates coming out of school 69 will go to collage after graduating. 49 will only go to a community collage and may or may not graduate with a two-year degree. Of the 20 that go to a four-year collage only 50 % will graduate with a degree. That means only 1 in 10 of the population has a collage degree from an accredited 4-year collage.
It gets worse, only 16% of graduates from these collage graduate with a degree in science and engineering fields that have ready money and employment upon graduation of which with the majority 55% is going into the medical field.
Of the other 84% in the social and humanities degree side only 46% are working in a job that requires a collage degree and only 11% are working in a field related to their major.
This is pretty pathetic !
5 facts about today's college graduates | Pew Research Center
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Old 18-11-2018, 15:49   #278
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

According to that definitive source, Wikipedia, about a third of Americans have 4-year degrees. So its not quite as bad as you make out. Another 10% or so have 2-year associates degrees.
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Old 18-11-2018, 15:57   #279
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Getting a degree serves a couple useful purposes

It keeps surplus workers off the job market without losing social status.

It helps maintain the ability of the wealthier parents to ensure relative success of their spawn, supressing social mobility of the underclasses.

As technology ensures that a very healthy economy (for the upper classes) requires only a small fraction of the population to actually be usefully employed, more and more useless busywork jobs are created, and

such expensive degrees help reserve those sinecures for those with good connections.

No reason for selection to be based on ability anyway.
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Old 18-11-2018, 16:19   #280
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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Getting a degree serves a couple useful purposes
...
It helps maintain the ability of the wealthier parents to ensure relative success of their spawn, supressing social mobility of the underclasses.
That seems like a sentence one might have heard before the internet. In the US, anybody and everybody can get a college degree these days, making the ďsuppressed underclassĒ an obsolete gripe regarding higher education. The modern gripe is huge student debt, which is financially strangling many new grads- a real problem.
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Old 18-11-2018, 18:05   #281
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Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

From what I have seen, itís more like having a degree that you canít find a job in, like a communications degree, there are many of those, and other liberal arts degrees.
Many of our friends kids, with four year degrees are waiting tables, substitute teaching etc.
One got smart and got John Deere to send him to their school, and does very well now working as a mechanic for John Deere. His degree was in Insurence, I didnít even know there was a degree in that?
My Wifeís half brother worked at a car dealership at the parts dept while he got his accounting degree, he still works at the parts dept, but is now the manager as he makes more money doing that than he would have as an accountant.
His Wife however got her Pharmacy degree, and works at Walgreenís and from my understanding is paid very well.
She is the only one that works in her degree field.

You donít have to accrue a huge debt to go to College either, I had a rich uncle pay for mine, in fact he is begging to send people to school, they just donít want to pay the price is all.
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Old 18-11-2018, 21:49   #282
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

We have met several young cruisers on our 4 year voyage from Croatia to Tahiti. Resourceful, hard working poor sailors. My favorite, brother sister took 50 days sailing from Panama to Fatu Hiva. Couldn't afford to stop in Galapagos as it costs over $1000 for a few days! Rudder problems on his 29' old sloop.
We met lots of young sailors along the route. No different when we did the same route in 1990, only more cruisers of all ages in every port.
Charter boats do overpopulate some cruising grounds, but never more than 20-30 miles from the base. Not part of my cruising sailor count.
I still wonder where this thread based his assumption on?
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Old 19-11-2018, 00:35   #283
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

I can't imagine how anyone could consider a trip up or down the US east coast was cruising. Motoring most of the way from marina berth to marina berth is more like a delivery trip up an interstate highway than cruising. Still I suppose we take what we can get.


My first long trip, 3500 miles from Sydney to the Whitsundays on the reef in 1972 was somewhat different. When the wind got up a bit, a short passage of 60 miles on the NSW coast became 340 miles, as no entrance was safe in the conditions.


When I got there just 6 boats were moored in Shute harbour, all tourist day trip boats, none lived at Airlie beach, & not a marina to be seen. There were no cruising guides to tell you about anchorages, you swapped notes with others you met.


Further north in New Guinea & the Solomons you could easily go a month or 2 without seeing another boat bigger than a village canoe.


I guess I am as guilty as any. I helped establish bare boat fleets, & day trip operations, so I shouldn't complain, but I do feel some guilt that those coming along today can not experience cruising as it was 40 years ago in Oz.
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Old 19-11-2018, 01:01   #284
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

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My first long trip, 3500 miles from Sydney to the Whitsundays on the reef in 1972 was somewhat different. When the wind got up a bit, a short passage of 60 miles on the NSW coast became 340 miles, as no entrance was safe in the conditions.


When I got there just 6 boats were moored in Shute harbour, all tourist day trip boats, none lived at Airlie beach, & not a marina to be seen. There were no cruising guides to tell you about anchorages, you swapped notes with others you met.

Further north in New Guinea & the Solomons you could easily go a month or 2 without seeing another boat bigger than a village canoe.

I guess I am as guilty as any. I helped establish bare boat fleets, & day trip operations, so I shouldn't complain, but I do feel some guilt that those coming along today can not experience cruising as it was 40 years ago in Oz.
That sounds pretty damn good.
Any idea where to go now to get the feeling of semi-exploration you are describing ?
Some parts of PNG/Papua ? Vanuatu ?
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Old 19-11-2018, 01:16   #285
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Re: Cruising Sailboats: a Dying Breed?

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
One world trend that's also concerning: there's a growing backlash over "overtouristing" - the locals in many popular destinations are complaining about the numbers of tourists... even though the tourism is often an important industry. I wonder if this pushback could extend to the popular cruising grounds?

Outside of a handful of extreme destinations (Venice being the most commonly sited by far), this is mostly a media made issue. A reporter goes out during peak season and asks a local a loaded question about do they hate how busy it is and then get the answer they were looking for.

Often it's about pushing for a more upscale clientele as they equal more dollars for less work. Nothing wrong with that if you can get it but just like ecotourism, it doesn't work when you try to scale it up.

Funny thing is many of the greatest historical destinations are great because they were poor. A little hill village in the Apennines couldn't afford to tear down and modernize their mid evil town center...but then a few centuries later, it became a source of wealth as tourists want to see it.
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