Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[s/v Breakaway]

Guys, guys - you both make very valid points coming from the fact that everyone has different experiences on which to base their opinions. That said, can we back-off and not fight about it? Hopefully, we are all here to learn from one another.

Alf, any chance you can post some photos so we can get a glimpse of your cruising setup?

Thx

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by goprisko

Again, I'd like to bring the discussion back to topic.

To Atoll: Glenn finished his boat on time, and went cruising. His organization was key to successful completion.

To Mark: I spent 15 years studying the coral reefs of the world, in doing so, I traveled as necessary to passes patch reefs and other interesting spots in my 12 modified whitehall rowing dink. Yes, I used the 2HP Honda for the longer runs, BUT mostly I moved the big boat to nearby and jumped off directly onto the area of interest. Since I was photographing my sites, and usually came complete with two cameras and strobes to match, I had a lot of gear to lug. Since I was singlehanding, I had to do it all alone. The dink sufficed just fine.

Regarding your comment about using your dink to go 10 miles to check out the next cove and seasteading. A micro-budget cruiser is not staking a claim to a plot of seabed. His boat must be agile, easily handled, and sufficiently weatherly to go anywhere he wants to go. Which means he will up anchor and explore that cove in the ship, towing the dink behind. He will have a boat of modest draft, < 4ft, that permits him exploring the most intimate gunkholes. He doesn't have to anchor close, because the sail on his dink carries him effortlessly to and fro. He doesn't have to worry about spark plugs, two cycle oil, gasoline, heavy chain to deter theft, repairing holed tubes, and other expenses. With the money saved, he enjoys a beer under a palm tree, while the RIB man scours for parts.

I have seen a lot of dinks in my 20 years traveling the world, and all the RIBs have large motors on them, and spend a lot of time zooming everywhere. That is fine, but it is not cheap.

This thread is about FRUGALITY. FRUGAL IS CHEAP. FRUGAL means using a $25/ yr dink instead of a $750/yr dink. BECAUSE the frugal guy wants to use the $725/yr on something else.

If this doesn't make sense to you, perhaps you might hang out at the "Cruising on $2000/month" thread, where such folks live rather than on this "Micro-budget Cruising" thread.

INDY

Once again I am baffled by your anger and your comments. I differed with your numbers in a respectful tone, but you seem to be offended by what I said... Strange?

My boat is a Searunner tri, it is agile, sails well to windward, and only draws about 3' with the board up. We check out other areas on an hourly basis sometimes. NO ONE moves their cruising boat every few hours.

I never said that You can't use a hard dink for diving. I did it for many years. I just said that RIBS are better dive boats. THEY ARE! This is also the opinion of 95% of the people who dive daily, and have used both types for years.

In the 15 years I spent actively cruising, spread out over 40 years, I only had a dinghy outboard completely "not run" on one occasion. I rowed back to the boat, rebuilt the carbarator, and never had it happen again. Sure they break on rare occasion, that's when I take my additional time (saved from not rowing), and fix it. You could not anchor in the places that we have, because you would take all day trying to make it to shore. Hard dinghies DO have a few disadvantages... This is not an opinion, it's a fact. RIBs also have disadvantages. FACT!

I never said that most folks had small RIBS with a small motors. "MOST FOLKS" are the much more funded 85% of cruisers. I said: "most folks on a budget"... And most of that 15% of cruisers, DO use smaller RIBs and smaller motors, (if they choose to use one at all).

Hard dinks do have advantages and disadvantages, just like RIBs. I was constantly repairing my hard dink, at least as often as my RIB. In places I have cruised, the risk of theft is just as high. In particular, the oars! In many areas, they will disappear the first time that you don't lock them, which requires a hole in the blade for the cable... Along with epoxy coating the holes, keeping paint on them, etc.

I never said that a RIB was as cheap as a hard dinghy, just that the difference in cost was far less than you were implying. You were comparing your experience with a hard dink to that of the 85% of more funded cruisers with large boats, large RIBs, and large OB motors. Apples to oranges...

My boats, over the decades, were a 23' Wharram, in my 20s, and a Seaclipper 28' tri in my 30s, and now in my 50s & married, we have a Searunner 34. All very frugal lifestyles.

I said in my first post that when I figured in boat maintenance (averaged over 15 years), Taxes when we owed them, and our only landside expense, of a 10 X 20' storage unit, we live on about $1,000 a month. This was for TWO people, so is = to $500 / month, per person. Pretty cheap, FRUGAL living, indeed!

I was single until the age of 35, and back then my living expenses were a third of that. On my first boat, I didn't USE a dinghy, I had a VERY long pair of freediving fins, lived on $100 / month, and worked "as I went" on both boats!

I didn't consider this a competition to see who can live the cheapest, you obviously do. YOU WIN!!! On our last time out for years, as always, it was on our savings, with "0" income. When the kitty got down to about $500, we sailed in three legs, and a total of 12 sea days, from Trinidad to the Beaufort NC inlet.

While waiting for a "weather window" in Culebra, we took the ferry to PR, rented a car, and drove across the country to see the world's largest radio telescope at Arriciebo. (sp?) No, This is not in keeping with living as cheaply as possible, ( not MY goal), it was in keeping with MY philosophy of: never go into debt, live within your means, and then have as much fun, and see as many inland sights as your budget will allow. On our $1,000 / month,(for both of us), we were just barely able to do this.

Being poor and/or living cheap, is no more something to brag about, than "living large" is for the big boat guys.

Enjoying yourself, while "Living within your means", and "treading lightly on the planet"... Now THAT'S a worthy goal.

I was not claiming to be the "cheap living champ". There is more to life than that, and it was not my goal. We have however, been among the least funded 1% of cruisers, had "0" income, lived on about $1,000 / mo, and managed to see a lot of the countries we visited, not just the coast.

I thought this input was useful to the conversation as well...

Mark

[Blue Crab]

On the one hand it would be a shame if the mods closed this valuable thread but on the other, there are really so many topics here, that maybe they should. Few new readers are going to read all 80 pages, and to jump aboard now misses much. I wonder how searchable this thread is.

I think one of the most cogent points was posted by Callmecrazy, I believe: he felt it was unrealistic to think that the sailor who was going to have to live within the $500 budget could ever or would ever build a $60k boat, or $40K or even 20K. I agree.

The minimalist will do what w1651 just did, and what I just did. Buy enough old "worn out" boat to do what they want, and slowly fix what needs fixing. Used sails are better than no sails. Someone earlier mentioned that it might take 18 years, rather than 18 months to sail RTW this way but so what? And the Pardeys motto bears repeating "go small, go now."

Indy is writing a book, I assume, but it's a book that has been written before many times. He built a great boat and sailed it RTW. That gives him standing in my estimation. Other contributors' knowledge and experience shows in their writing as well.

My budget isn't nearly as tight as we've posited but I do have a monthly budget so I'm reading to pick up new tricks I've missed over a lifetime of boating so far and to save money where I can. Giving up cold beer is not an option.

[boatman61]

There's been some good stuff come out on here from Goprisco and Alf and Mark... but the fact is whats the bee's knees for me is maybe not so hot for say Alf...
I don't post much on here as....
as far as I've seen to date the 'hard core' basic sailors are not in here...
Mark I think is the closest... tho' he's gone soft in his old age...
fancy giving up Wharrams.....
Lets keep the info flowing...
its wide ranging and informative enough to benefit all... just don't get obsessed by the $'s... even I don't try to 'keep it under'....
Otherwise it becomes a Penance and turns what should be the sheer pleasure of simplicity into a trial of sadomasochism....

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by boatman61

There's been some good stuff come out on here from Goprisco and Alf and Mark... but the fact is whats the bee's knees for me is maybe not so hot for say Alf...
I don't post much on here as....
as far as I've seen to date the 'hard core' basic sailors are not in here...
Mark I think is the closest... tho' he's gone soft in his old age...
fancy giving up Wharrams.....
Lets keep the info flowing...
its wide ranging and informative enough to benefit all... just don't get obsessed by the $'s... even I don't try to 'keep it under'....
Otherwise it becomes a Penance and turns what should be the sheer pleasure of simplicity into a trial of sadomasochism....

I ONLY gave up Wharrams because I couldn't arrange a boatload of naked women like in James' literature... At least not MY women! I only wanted three.
I know that it works for him, but in my 20s, can you imagine my disappointment. HA! http://www.cruisersforum.com/images/icons2/icosm07.gif

Truthfully, my little Wharram was run down by an ******* with a 100 MPH speed boat! The boat was anchored out in Key West, and I was onshore at the time. With no ins. I took a total loss, and fixed up a $700 van, to live in and work out of Keys boatyards. After a couple of years of this, I returned to living in a free barn, in Central SC, to spend 8 years on my next boat. And the saga continues...
M.

[w1651]

Giving up cold beer is not an option.

T I hear you on that. I think that is going to be the hardest part of cruising for me. Thank God they still make rum.

Here's a little question I have been pondering since I checked a price at west marine. How much of your boat Mark did you get from the auto supply store as compared to the marine supply stores???
I went looking for a plug for thru hull to the head on my boat. Foam emergency plug at west marine 10.00 a rubber freeze plug with center nut to spread and secure the plug 4.00 at advanced auto parts.

These are the things I want to know about. Where to get the same or betterparts at a more reasonable cost. Another example, Polybutyl tape. the cheapest I have found is at a glass shop that does windshields. 1/16 tape 30.00 with more then enough to do all the fittings on deck.

[callmecrazy]

Originally Posted by w1651

T I hear you on that. I think that is going to be the hardest part of cruising for me. Thank God they still make rum.

Here's a little question I have been pondering since I checked a price at west marine. How much of your boat Mark did you get from the auto supply store as compared to the marine supply stores???
I went looking for a plug for thru hull to the head on my boat. Foam emergency plug at west marine 10.00 a rubber freeze plug with center nut to spread and secure the plug 4.00 at advanced auto parts.

These are the things I want to know about. Where to get the same or betterparts at a more reasonable cost. Another example, Polybutyl tape. the cheapest I have found is at a glass shop that does windshields. 1/16 tape 30.00 with more then enough to do all the fittings on deck.

Good question. Get your butyl tape from RV Supply dealers, preferably on ebay, but I'm sure they can be found locally as well. I just bought some last week, here for $10 after shipping

My dilemma right now is where to source galvanized chain? The cheapest I can find right now is 2.50 a foot on ebay (for 5/16" BBB) but it's more like 3.50 at WM... don't they sell this stuff at home depot? where else can you find galvanized chain at wholesale prices ( by the foot )?
logging companies? tractor supply? Tractor supply sells HT chain but it's not galvanized, can I buy this stuff and get it galvanized myself and still come out $1/ft cheaper than WM?


Must agree with some of the other posts. I'm still having a hard time wrapping my brain around building a boat to save money, it seems counter productive... I was once told if you want to build boat, build one, but if you want to go sailing, buy a boat and go sailing

I think it's been shown in this thread, that everybody has their own way of doing things, and I believe that is a very important aspect to focus on. The thing that turns me off to the whole "suburban" cruisers (vs. ghetto fabulous cruisers ) is that they- (generalizing of course, but to make a point) -they just go with whatever works for everybody else. There isn't a whole lot of brain power going into it, it's just about following the pack and keeping up with the Joneses... so it makes sense that budget cruisers, of all shapes and sizes, are the ones that are innovating, inventing, and forging their own way through the cruising world without falling victim to peer pressure and mass marketing.... I'm happy that INDY has found his way, and for everyone else that has already done it as well, but there is a new crop of low budget cruisers (like me) that are attempting to find our way, we come here to get ideas and maybe a little guidance, not to be told what to do. We just want a discussion on what has worked for other people, so we can weigh our options and make our own decisions...

Plus, I do enjoy bragging a little about how much money I'm NOT spending, and it is fun to stir the pot every once ina while

And for the record, the entire reason I'm interested in cruising on $500 a month is so the rest of my income can be spent on women and booze

[Artif]

I've been following this thread with great interest, and it has been very enlightening.
One thing does occur to me though, surely the really low budget cruisers wont have a computer, therefore we are missing a great deal of the real low budget info available out there.

[SaucySailoress]

Originally Posted by Artif

, surely the really low budget cruisers wont have a computer, therefore we are missing a great deal of the real low budget info available out there.

Everyone has a computer nowadays, surely!! Even those kids who posted their amazing video of their tiny budget boat they fixed up had a digital camera and a computer (Mac, but never mind).

Besides, we have plenty of tale tellers here who pass on stories from those who haven't done the digital migration yet!

[Artif]

Originally Posted by Saucy Sailoress

Everyone has a computer nowadays, surely!! Even those kids who posted their amazing video of their tiny budget boat they fixed up had a digital camera and a computer (Mac, but never mind).

Besides, we have plenty of tale tellers here who pass on stories from those who haven't done the digital migration yet!

I think it's only about a 1/4 of the worlds population has a computer.
I must admit going off grid does appeal in some ways.
But not all

[dana-tenacity]

Don't know about that anymore. Second hand computers are cheap - really cheap - nearly free in fact.
I scoffed at them for many years, but now think I may carry one on the new boat. Weight and space savings on books and music for starters, then the option of actually saving money by using one - still working on that. But I'm not as certain as I once was that they don't belong on my boat - hey how come I started writing in italics.

[kenny chaos]

Originally Posted by dana-tenacity

still working on that. But I'm not as certain as I once was that they don't belong on my boat - hey how come I started writing in italics.

Now that there is funny.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Artif

I've been following this thread with great interest, and it has been very enlightening.
One thing does occur to me though, surely the really low budget cruisers wont have a computer, therefore we are missing a great deal of the real low budget info available out there.

Alf.... even low budget cruisers have 'HIGHS'....
that job you did not expect... a trade for the O/B more than you need...
and lets face it... internets free if you know where to look... even in the Algarve...
As to cheap boat builds... forget everything thats not a Wharram... a mono will cost you twice as much as a 32ft Tiki.... in money and time....
and be less fun, slower and harder to park away from the maddening crowd....

[Artif]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Alf.... even low budget cruisers have 'HIGHS'....
that job you did not expect... a trade for the O/B more than you need...
and lets face it... internets free if you know where to look... even in the Algarve...
As to cheap boat builds... forget everything thats not a Wharram... a mono will cost you twice as much as a 32ft Tiki.... in money and time....
and be less fun, slower and harder to park away from the maddening crowd....

??????????

I'm with you on the Wharram though.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Artif

I've been following this thread with great interest, and it has been very enlightening.
One thing does occur to me though, surely the really low budget cruisers wont have a computer, therefore we are missing a great deal of the real low budget info available out there.

Sorry Alf.... maybe I shoulda used this quote....
hows the Alzheimer's....