Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by w1651

anyone have any experience with Marelon sea cocks? They are supposed to be completely corrosion resistant and plastic so the body won't decay either.

In addition to Mark Johnson's comments, Marelon Seacocks come in several body styles, I used the "flanged" versions so I could bolt the to the hull or a built up "pad" attached to the hull. These are the strongest versions and do not add any "shear loads" to the through-hulls, which are also Marelon.
- - I used the "Flush/flat" head Marelon Through-hulls and countersunk then into the exterior of the hull. The idea was that if anything hard and sharp slid down the length of the hull it could not "shear" off the through-hull.
- - Marelon Seacocks are built in 3 pieces (plus the handle). The main body with the flanges which gets bolted to the hull. Then a ball valve with the handle. Finally the upper body which threads onto the main body. Then you add whatever hose adaptor you need.
- - You adjust the "stiffness" of the ball valve by tightening the upper body down onto the main body thereby squeezing the ball valve. Likewise you can loosen the ball valve by "unscrewing" the upper body a mere 1/8th turn or so. If the valve is not exercised and "lubricated" from the outside and exercised reasonably often - say each haul-out - then the ball can bind and not want to turn and if too much force is applied to the handle it will strip or break off. Pain the the butt. -But- with a stuck ball all you have to do is use two large wrenches and un-screw the upper body a fraction of a rotation to take the pressure off the ball and then you can exercise the ball valve. Then slightly re-tighten the upper body. It is generally not necessary to remove any hoses, etc., as the rotation is minor.

[goprisko]

Hi,

The cheapest solution to the seacock problem are Banjo Glass Filled Propylene Ball Valves. They have teflon balls and seats which means they
never need lubrication. Not true seacocks however. They are meant to be
screwed onto a pipe nipple. so you must use a thruhull with a tapered pipe thread on the end. Not too many know that seacocks are flanged on one end and meant to be thru bolted thru the planking with carriage bolts.

This does not work well with GRP or metal hulls.

These valves are sold at tractor supply stores and are used by farmers in
spraying equipment. For this reason they are cheap. I have had several of these in service for 20 years now. The only apparent wear is rusting of the fasteners. I recommend you replace them with SS 316 hex bolts

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by avb3

I'm not sure where you come up with the 40% off situation.

I agree there is a wholesale versus retail difference, but it is my experience that often a high volume retailer can provide better pricing then I can get at wholesale.

Much has to do with volume and repeat purchase.

If you set up an account with a wholesale supplier, one of the first questions included is what your expected annual volume of purchases will be. If it is below their threshold of a wholesale supplier, you gain nothing from that gambit.



I like your plan, I just don't think the execution of it in the manner you describe will be possible.

I disagree, when I built Pegasus, I constructed her through the company.

I was never asked for any of the things you mention. I received wholesale pricing from all my suppliers, and continue to do so.

You are just making up scare stories in a vain attempt to deny another the opportunity to save money.

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by w1651

Just so you know when you do register it in Florida you will have to pay the sales tax. I'm having to do that myself with the boat I just bought.

It might be a better option to just have it documented by the Coast Guard though I don't know the hoops you have to jump through to do that either.

Only USCG documentation is recognized as national registration overseas.

State Registration should not be used. Document the vessel and homeport it
in Delaware.

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by Doodles

If all you are trying to do is get a trademan's discount you don't need to incorporate or form a LLC. Just register as a sole proprietor, e.g. Indy Sailorman t/a "Building My Dream Boat". Most small contractors and tradesmen operate this way. You don't need to form the fancy company in Delaware.

AMEN !!

INDY

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by goprisko

Hi,

The cheapest solution to the seacock problem are Banjo Glass Filled Propylene Ball Valves. They have teflon balls and seats which means they
never need lubrication. Not true seacocks however. They are meant to be
screwed onto a pipe nipple. so you must use a thruhull with a tapered pipe thread on the end. Not too many know that seacocks are flanged on one end and meant to be thru bolted thru the planking with carriage bolts.

This does not work well with GRP or metal hulls.

These valves are sold at tractor supply stores and are used by farmers in
spraying equipment. For this reason they are cheap. I have had several of these in service for 20 years now. The only apparent wear is rusting of the fasteners. I recommend you replace them with SS 316 hex bolts

INDY

I'm no fan of non-seacocks for underwater applications....no matter what the ball valve is made of or attached to...I'm trying to do away with ALL thru hulls and go to a sea chest with sea cocks bolted to it.

Non sea cocks are a gamble no matter what combo they are.

[sctpc]

Originally Posted by goprisko

We developed a proforma budget as follows:
Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair_$ 970
Provisions____________$ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees_$ 150
Fuel_________________$ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees__$ -0-
Communication________$ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment_$ 800
Navigation____________$ 700
Insurance, Boat_______$ -0-
Insurance Health______$ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs____________$ 150
Clothing and Sundries__$ 290


TOTAL_____________$ 6,000


We calculated out the costs of outfitting a sample boat between 28-34 ft LOA and
came to the following:


Full suit of sails __________________________________$ 3500
Anchors and gear______________________________________$ 1600
Galley including cooker, sink and hand pump _______________$ 2000
Head including LAVAC, sink, and plumbing _______________$ 1020
Standing Rigging, wire, turnbuckles, sockets________________$ 2116
Running Rigging__________, rope, winches, blocks__________$ 3900
New bottom paint, including haulout______________________$ 1000
LED Lamps, fridge, battery and Distribution Panel____________$ 2500
Dinghy including oars and sailing rig (Danny Green Chameleon)_$1000

TOTAL_____________________________________________ $ 18,316
INDY

Hi Indy I see you mention in Outfitting antifowling haulout 1k but in your yearly cost its not mentioned at all, any reason? to me its so important as you may get away one year but the cost magnifies is you dont look after you boat.

[w1651]

How hard is it to pull up to a island, let the tide go out, then scrape and paint one side of your boat at a time?
I was reading James Baldwins blog and site recently. He says when he first set out to circumnavigate he went to a small island in Biscane bay first and tied his boat off. He then scraped and painted the hull at low tide in three or four days.
Couldn't get away with that now but there should be somewhere in this world you could still do it. Africa maybe?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by w1651

How hard is it to pull up to a island, let the tide go out, then scrape and paint one side of your boat at a time?
I was reading James Baldwins blog and site recently. He says when he first set out to circumnavigate he went to a small island in Biscane bay first and tied his boat off. He then scraped and painted the hull at low tide in three or four days.
Couldn't get away with that now but there should be somewhere in this world you could still do it. Africa maybe?

Most places the Stars and Stripes don't fly....

[zeehag]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Most places the Stars and Stripes don't fly....

FOR SURE!!!!!!! anywhere else seems to be ok...in usa is criminal act...LOL

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber

Mark, please don't be bashful. Share your cruising and living tips with us!

Well... Since childhood, I had big dreams and no money. Luckily I had been a boatworker in several applications, since I left home @ 15, so I could build my own. The first project was from 20 to 23 years old, and the second was from 25 to 33 years old. (The 3rd... 36 to 46).

On the first boat, I had no dinghy at all! I did the side stroke in to Key West, with HUGE freediving fins. At the end of the day, I'd swim back out, holding my groceries out of the water with one hand.

So, "building my own" allowed me to live below the poverty level, in a shack connected to a barn, (which I built), and ALL extra time & $ went into my projects. That was key #1... "build my own boats".

Next, is "go as small as will serve your needs". Averaged out over decades, boats cost more exponentially with size. It is the dockage, haulouts, fees, sails/rigging, and every gadget on the boat. The bigger the boat, the more crap you will put on it. Mine were a 23 cat, a 28 tri, and after getting married @ 35... a 34' tri. This has been "just right" for two.

Go shallow draft. This triples your options to anchor out. I was single handed in my 20s and much of my 30s, so I took the ICW many times. With few exceptions, I anchored out every night! AVOID DOCKS, ANCHOR OUT!

During that period, I was young & feisty, with mondo boat skills, so finding work along the way was never a problem. Not so any more! At almost 57, I am achy from a life of serious injuries, more picky what I do, and I don't give quotes. I no longer work as I go. Maintaining our own boat keeps me pretty busy.

I DO have "all the comforts" on our current Delphys... watermaker, Radar, SSB, etc... but they are as small, light & simple as they can be! Wherever possible, we avoid "unnecessary" complication. IE... Don't use duel purpose electronics, & minimize interfacing.

Our shower is a black plastic 2.5 gal garden sprayer, with dish washing nozzle. We sit it in the sun to heat it up, and shower in the cockpit. This keeps the moisture out from "down below".

We lived on Delphys for 12 years, (moved off 3 years ago), and still cruise on her. From the get go, we set up EVERY option for energy efficiency. Some things have been changed, as they became obsolete, others are the same.

We have Fluorescent or LED lights, incl. the mast head & swinging anchor lights. We have all "black brick" AC to 19V DC devices, (like TV & Computer) running on direct 12V to 19V DC/DC converters. This avoids the need to turn on the 120W inverter, except rarely. We have a perfectly balanced helm, so the autopilot hardly works at all. We have super efficient vacuum panel refrigeration. (@ 2 qu/ft, and NOT making ice, it uses VERY little amps). We chose a design that "really sails", so fuel expenses for our 18 HP engine are minimized, etc...

Everything has an upfront price. By spending our thought, money, and energy on "efficiency" from the get-go, we only need about 40 Ah / day. This is easily supplied by our solar panels, even on cloudy days, during the 95% of the year that we are not doing "overnighters". Only after overnighters do we need to crank the engine for an hour in the morning, and our simple Hitachi 55 will do fine. This saves us a LOT of money on fuel, repairs, huge alternator/reg., etc.

This philosophy applied equally well when we built a house. This was later sold for the "cruising kitty", after Delphys was ready for launch, (still 2 years from her first sail).

We catch rainwater in the dinghy, and wash clothes in it, and cruise where one needs very little to wear.

When it was still possible, I lived of of "the catch of the day". Now, with dying reefs, cigutera, over fishing, and restrictive local laws, this is mostly a thing of the past, (at least where I have cruised). I have become much more conscious lately, of when & where I take seafood, and then it is ONLY one meal. We have no freezer, and don't need one.

We only eat out for lunch on occasion, (cheaper), and look or the "secret" cheap places where locals go for conch fritters, or a chicken roti. (Potlucks on other boats are sometimes a nightly entertainment, however.)

By making the boat the most aesthetic restaurant around, and the galley functional, you eat out less. We have no oven, and do fine without, using a Dutch oven & pressure cooker.

Back stateside... we hit consignment shops, or even the Salvation Army for bargains on clothes.

It is the same philosophy that I have applied to my life in general. Pay the upfront price, Live consciously, Tread lightly, Go small, and don't wait until you're too old to enjoy it!

As much as we'd like to, truly becoming "friends" with the third world locals is rare. The least we can do is be "ambassadors of good will", and remain cognizant of the fact that our little homebuilt plywood boat, still represents unimaginable wealth to them.

I don't know if there is anything useful in there or not, but...
Sorry if I rambled.

Mark

[roanokejim]

Yeah right zeehag. I think that I don't want to commit that US criminal act.

[Blue Crab]

Good read Mark. Certainly in the spirit of Searunner designer, Jim Brown himself. I always loved that Searunner cartoon of the guy with the broken mast talking to an island chief: "You weldem aluminum?" I built a Wharram 23' Hinemoa like yours. I don't have your boat skills but it still came together and went sailing. No trouble selling it either. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up but at 69, in great shape (or so the gals tell me) I'm still thinking of building a 31' Tiki. Wish I knew how much time I have left.

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by tgzzzz

Good read Mark. Certainly in the spirit of Searunner designer, Jim Brown himself. I always loved that Searunner cartoon of the guy with the broken mast talking to an island chief: "You weldem aluminum?" I built a Wharram 23' Hinemoa like yours. I don't have your boat skills but it still came together and went sailing. No trouble selling it either. I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up but at 69, in great shape (or so the gals tell me) I'm still thinking of building a 31' Tiki. Wish I knew how much time I have left.

Don't we all! It would make it so much easier to know what sized projects to get into... Yep, that cartoon was Jo Hudson's most popular. BTW... the Searunner Construction Manual is to be updated and re-released. (don't know about new cartoons?)

You know... there is a guy in FL that is building the Tiki 31, on a semi production basis. Of coarse, the "building it yourself" may be the point.

Enjoy, Mark

[Mark Johnson]

Originally Posted by osirissail

In addition to Mark Johnson's comments, Marelon Seacocks come in several body styles, I used the "flanged" versions so I could bolt the to the hull or a built up "pad" attached to the hull. These are the strongest versions and do not add any "shear loads" to the through-hulls, which are also Marelon.
- - I used the "Flush/flat" head Marelon Through-hulls and countersunk then into the exterior of the hull. The idea was that if anything hard and sharp slid down the length of the hull it could not "shear" off the through-hull.
- - Marelon Seacocks are built in 3 pieces (plus the handle). The main body with the flanges which gets bolted to the hull. Then a ball valve with the handle. Finally the upper body which threads onto the main body. Then you add whatever hose adaptor you need.
- - You adjust the "stiffness" of the ball valve by tightening the upper body down onto the main body thereby squeezing the ball valve. Likewise you can loosen the ball valve by "unscrewing" the upper body a mere 1/8th turn or so. If the valve is not exercised and "lubricated" from the outside and exercised reasonably often - say each haul-out - then the ball can bind and not want to turn and if too much force is applied to the handle it will strip or break off. Pain the the butt. -But- with a stuck ball all you have to do is use two large wrenches and un-screw the upper body a fraction of a rotation to take the pressure off the ball and then you can exercise the ball valve. Then slightly re-tighten the upper body. It is generally not necessary to remove any hoses, etc., as the rotation is minor.

I agree that the flush head versions are the way to go. (I wish I had done them all this way). They make scraping with a blade much easier. I just glued in a backing block, and bedded the through hull in with Silica thickened epoxy. Use wax or better yet... 3-M 471 blue plastic tape, as a mold release. After cure, remove the fitting, clean/sand the recession, and caulk in the through hull, "just snug". These swell just a bit over the years, so it is good to start them out with the head just below flush.
M.