Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by atoll

surely holeing up in a third world anchorage,because it is cheap is not realy cruising....cruising implies that you are actually going somewhere.

find this a lot in the med,due to the differences in marina prices,if you pay a yearly rate,works out at 2-3000 euros as oppsed to 30-50 euros a night during the season......consequently "cruisers" never leave the dock....

I believe cruising is using the boat to go places and see what's there rather than just sail around in circles or whatever enjoying the beauty of the boat moving under sails.
- - So cruisers typically have to "hole up" for the bad weather season - like the June-Nov hurricane season - somewhere and then move to the next interesting place the next "sailing" season. Where you "hole up" is really a totally personal choice tempered by the ability of the place to shelter you and your boat from storms. And how much "sheltering" you want is again a very personal choice based on the amount of risk you are willing to accept.
- - Some folks like ultra economical places like the D.R. and Central America or Venezuela. Others like more "modern" places with access to 1st world stuff.
- - IMHO, as long as you are living on the boat and not on land you are a "cruiser" even if you spend a season or two in one great location rather than constantly moving. Since we travel by "weather seasons" staying in one location for a few months or more is the normal cruiser lifestyle.

[osirissail]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

My cousin went around the big stone almost 2 times on his Camper 58. He figured on 50 kilobucks/year. That included hired captain and mate (captain's wife) and air travel. I don't think they anchored out much. Nice links but sometimes slow. African Queen World Cruise

Excuse me but what does R-T-W a decade ago for $50,000/year ($4200/mo) have to do with a thread about $500/month in 2011?

[boatman61]

Whatever you do don't ever use the Marina in Ibiza Town... they hit us for 70GBP for a night... in 1996.. for a 31ft Westerly... shoulda just boarded and left but the lady wanted to see the town...
Dread to think the cost today...
Now I drop the hook in San Antonio instead...

Osirissail... see post #1315....

[atoll]

Originally Posted by osirissail

I believe cruising is using the boat to go places and see what's there rather than just sail around in circles or whatever enjoying the beauty of the boat moving under sails.
- - So cruisers typically have to "hole up" for the bad weather season - like the June-Nov hurricane season - somewhere and then move to the next interesting place the next "sailing" season. Where you "hole up" is really a totally personal choice tempered by the ability of the place to shelter you and your boat from storms. And how much "sheltering" you want is again a very personal choice based on the amount of risk you are willing to accept.
- - Some folks like ultra economical places like the D.R. and Central America or Venezuela. Others like more "modern" places with access to 1st world stuff.
- - IMHO, as long as you are living on the boat and not on land you are a "cruiser" even if you spend a season or two in one great location rather than constantly moving. Since we travel by "weather seasons" staying in one location for a few months or more is the normal cruiser lifestyle.

i totally agree,with the modus operandi and choices in regard to weather,but find in reality if one is on such a limited budget $500/m probably one would be better calling oneself an "economic refugee" rather than "cruiser".........

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

i totally agree,with the modus operandi and choices in regard to weather,but find in reality if one is on such a limited budget $500/m probably one would be better calling oneself an "economic refugee" rather than "cruiser".........

No need to be polite mate.... I've been called a 'Bum' before....
trouble I've found is everyone measures me by their needs... like Oriental NC for example... a GF decided my supplies for crossing the Atlantic were to little (she ate 18oz steaks with the trimmings 5 nites a week) so put an appeal out....
Folks turned up with odds n ends... I ended up with 20 large tins of corned beef and some tins of fruit... I still had 16 tins of CB when I got to the UK... traded 4 tins for 2 packs of ciggies 400mile west of the Azores with a Spanish fishing boat...
They could not believe someone could provision for the trip with just $150...
Semi dried fruit, nuts, cereals, milk, sugar, and a few luxury goods for 'treats'... what more dya need... can I help it if I know how calories/vitamins work and many don't..

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatman61

No need to be polite mate.... I've been called a 'Bum' before....

bet you never turned up at a pot luck on a regular basis with a tin of beans......then piled up on all the good stuff,there are bums and BUMS

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by atoll

bet you never turned up at a pot luck on a regular basis with a tin of beans......then piled up on all the good stuff,there are bums and BUMS

Shoot... your supposed to 'Bring Something'.....
But seriously... I used to organise barbies when I was doing the Med.... scrounge a 45gall drum.. cut it in half... one half with wire mesh for the barbie... the other half with broken up pallets for warmth... run my speakers onto the dock...
Great winters in Agua Dulce... doubt one would get away with that today...
Glory Days....

[atoll]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Shoot... your supposed to 'Bring Something'.....
But seriously... I used to organise barbies when I was doing the Med.... scrounge a 45gall drum.. cut it in half... one half with wire mesh for the barbie... the other half with broken up pallets for warmth... run my speakers onto the dock...
Great winters in Agua Dulce... doubt one would get away with that today...
Glory Days....

done it myself,even if i didn't have more than a few tatties to put on,the contibution was a fire and some of my time.

the budget cruisers that i object to are those that take stuff off the free table and a couple of days later you find it for sale at the local second hand shop.....benifiting noboby apart from themselves........

[goprisko]

I just met a family cruising on a Colvin 34, a steel boat nearly as old as I am.

They spent 6 years in Europe, including the Med, Baltic, Irish Sea, Western Approaches, and North Sea.

They really loved France, Sweden, Scotland, and Ireland.

I haven't the complete picture of things but it would seem that their impression of the Azores fits what I have learned elsewhere. Those islands with no tourist traffic were inexpensive, and more interesting too.

Of course, the current turmoil in North Africa has closed many places to
the timid, for now. But it would seem many inexpensive places remain.

This couple recommends Norway and Sweden, and perhaps Finland too?

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by tgzzzz

Good points D_O_J.

As we say here in Merica: don't quit that day job.

Thread drift my butt: I want to hear more about living on 9,000 a month!

That's way more than $500.

Si? No?

I recommend you visit another thread devoted to that lifestyle, rather than cluttering up this one....

For those new to the thread I recommend you visit pages 28-36 to get the meat of what and why regarding micro-budget cruising.

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by ImaginaryNumber

Indy, would you mind commenting further on how you obtain a sales tax ID, and then how you use it to obtain trade discounts?

Also, I'm unclear how you eliminated a $10K design fee? Did you design the hull yourself.

Have you considered making a junk rig? The newer designs (with cambered panels) make their windward abilities competitive with bermuda-type sails. The sails are easy to make (though you won't be able to buy any second-hand). You don't need to change sails as the wind changes. Their free-standing masts are easy to build and don't require expensive and noisy stays or shrouds. Reefing can easily be done on all points of sail from the safety of cockpit or cabin, and gybing the sail is not so dangerous.

If you use a design from Chappell's book, or one of the old rudder designs, there is no fee. If you approach Dick Zaal and use Lapwing as is, he has offered to reduce the fee to that of a stock plan. I my case, I use my experience and Skenes to design my own new boat.

I have considered junk rig, and Annie Hill recommends this rig, as does Tom Colvin. Having used cutter rig for two decades, I prefer that rig. I also use SailCut 4 to design my own sails, which I sewed on my industrial sewing machine in the aft cabin.

That said, I'm very interested in modern junk rigs and suggest you contribute a post on them.

As I mentioned earlier, you can get bronze capels from Port Townsend Foundry
Port Townsend Foundry in Washington

With them you can make your own standing rigging.

You get a sales tax ID by applying for it. These are given out at state offices, generally. Once you have that ID, you are considered to be in a business, and likely will pose as a retailer. That is generally sufficient to get you a Port Supply Account, and other wholesale accounts. You need to bunch up your purchases to meet the volume requirements of your vendors, but some planning will enable this.

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

After 88 pages (my screen) its hard to predict where the thread may wander. -- like pushing a rope or a game of 'Telegraph'.

I presume the smaller the boat, the easier to hit 500/month is in one of those 88.

Remember that the only stupid question is the one you don't ask.

We went to the boat show in Chicago. We are way ahead of 500/month. We made a lot of vendors very happy. I look forward to the day we have enough boat candy.

I suggest you carefully examine pp 28-36. The meat of the thread can be found there.

To summarize, micro-budget cruising requires a very simple boat displacing 5-9 tons, and 28-34 ft LOA.

Such a boat does not have "candy" on it, only essentials. Deliberately kept simple, outfitting is performed within a strict budget, for the express purpose of converting funds into cruising funds as soon as possible.

Given the imminent onset of the decline of petroleum production, the micro-budget cruiser has no engine, using his sailing skills to get where he wants to go.

This thread is focused upon the needs and wants of those who choose this lifestyle.

Perhaps from your post, you might find a better fit elsewhere.

INDY

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by w1651

If I remember right Old Jersey the last time I checked Thailand it was about 30 Bat to 1 Dollar. Still a great bargain. Just STAY OUT OF THE TOURIST TRAPS! No more girly girl for you. (add thai accent when saying that)

Just looked myself - now 50 to the £1 most of the time I was there around the 67 - 72 mark (and in the 97 Asian Crash hit 92......and that before inflation and costs got "westernised" ).

50 has gotta hurt folks - many used to whine like a stuck pig about the odd drop below 70

Just goes to show that a country can still be a dysfunctional 3rd world toilet with a corrupt Government, have a couple of conflicts going on and even death squads - and still have currency appreciation. There be hope for Britain yet

BTW my time in Thailand was spently mainly in Temples study ancient scriptures. Wat?

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by w1651

There is something we don't talk about and that is exchange rates. When I went to China the rate was 7 to 1 . 700 yen (RMB) for ever 100 dollars. Such a deal!
Most are saying that you cannot do 500 a month but they are in the usual tourist traps of the Med or the islands. St Barts is Expensive and a good exchange rate won't be had if they don't use the Dollar anyway.

You can still cruise central America (Which is the Caribbean) very cheaply. Honduras, Guatemala is going at a rate of about 15 to 18 to 1. Why go to the USVI if you can see other cultures and landscapes at a more reasonable rate? Not to mention 500 a month at a rate of 18 to 1 is 9000 a month.

Are you going to say you can't live on that?

Thank you for mentioning many very good points. I too wonder that so many cruise with blinders on. My amazement is not new however. I wondered the same thing regarding canoe voyagers in N. Minnesota and N Ontario, some 40 years ago.

The 5 expeditions into the Canadian Sub-Arctic taught me one very important lesson, which is.... most folks are timid....

The micro-budget cruiser must be adventurous and willing to go to exotic and seldom visited locales. He must be willing to learn languages other than his own. In doing so, he experiences a life much richer than that of his peers.

I have been to each and every one of the locales you mention and a few remarks are inorder.

China - My wife and I were featured speakers at a school commencement. From the moment we entered the hall seating 10,000 until the time we sat at the podium, the entire crowd gave us a standing ovation. I was Dean of International Programs at Shenzhen University. I was featured speaker at a forum on international investments. I successfully treated an 11 year old Korean boy for dyslexia

Guatemala - Arriving with a failed FW pulley on the Perkins, a kind man guided me to a machine shop operating in a lean to no larger than a one car garage. Next day the proud proprietor presented me with two new pulleys, which fit perfectly and gave me a spare. Cost $25

Honduras - The diving in the islands between Roatan and the mainland was superb, and I was the only one there, except for the turtle I encountered,that is.

Nicaragua - I arrived at Great Corn Island needing fuel and water. I anchored off the fisherman's coop, where I was assured that no formalities need be done right then. I got my fuel at a good price, water was free, and a boat offered me 20 L of frozen lobster, free. I wandered the island for nearly a week talking to everyone and taking photos. As I wandered, I often crossed paths with a Sergeant in fatigues riding a motorcycle. I'd wave, he'd smile. Eventually, I was asked to go to the Commandancia to enter. Arriving off the beach of it's location, I found a modest two story building. Within was the Sergeant. He directed me to an agency located at the root of the commercial dock. There the agent assured me that everything had been arranged for my simultaneous entry and exit for a total sum of $100, including all fees. This because my entry had been organized to coincide with the monthly arrival of the supply boat. Next day I picked up my clearances.

Anchored in the bay was a converted US shrimper. Aboard was an american couple. She hated to cook, so they ate out all the time. She loved southwestern silver jewelery, the gaudier the better. They were required to fly out the customs and immigration people on a special trip. Their entry cost $ 1200.

Venezuela - Arriving at Testigo Grande, Chochon invited me into his home, and for the next several days we fished the reefs for dinner, and amused ourselves making music. He fished, I brought the hot coffee in the thermos. Later we went to the big town for a fiesta. When one of the officials noticed me, Chochon waved him off, acknowledging me as his amigo.

It is not how many toys you have, nor how much money you have or can spend, it is how you conduct yourself that matters.

INDY

[goprisko]

Originally Posted by w1651

Went looking for halyards today. I think I'm just gonna get a roll of three braid 3/8 polyester line from ebay. I can get a roll of 600 ft if I want for less then .50 cents a foot. And 600 ft is more then enough for the life of the boat.
West Marine wants over $2.00 a ft for 3/8 New England rope. That's just crazy to me.
Anyone ever use polypropylene for sheets?

Polypropylene is too stretchy for use as sheets, and its life is short. Its strength is on the order of manila.

The 3/8 polyester you mention should be ok for your boat as it is a 33. You will need a pair of sailing gloves, as this size tends to cut into the palm of your hand without them. 7/16 is the smallest size you can haul on with out this problem.

Polypro line is very good when used as a dinghy painter. It floats and keeps out of the prop because of this. Beware that polypro is slippery and very difficult to splice or knot securely.

INDY