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Old 12-06-2010, 08:05   #466

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Sails and Costs...

Sails for the Southern Cross 31
Every cruising boat that has been refastened and refurbished to the standard specified on the checklist, needs sails.

Depending upon what is there when the boat is purchased, the new owner may find he needs one or many.. in our analysis we will assume he needs everything...

Examination of the Bacon Website

Bacon Sails & Marine Supplies

shows many mainsails available at prices from $100-1000 but this one caught my attention because it has bronze slides..


staysail for the southern cross 31

This staysail caught my is of 5 oz dacron, and is about the right size
for a #1 staysail on this boat..

Bacon Sails & Marine Supply
410-263-4880 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 410-263-4880 end_of_the_skype_highlighting Catalog Number: 102-TUR-104 Luff: 35' 1" Leach: 23' 7" Foot: 14' 4" Head: 0' 0" Price: $175.00 BACK STAY MULE, 5.0 OZ. DACRON, BY H.R.& R. BRONZE 2" PISTON HANKS ON ROPED LUFF. LEACH AND FOOT LINES. TAKES ONE FULL LENGTH BATTEN NOT INCLUDED. WHITE, LIGHT BLUE & MEDIUM BLUE. SOILED. STAINED. WHITE BAG. VERY GOOD.
Next needed is a yankee.....such a sail should be high clewed, as this one is...

This boat needs a yankee.... such a sail must be high clewed... as this one is..


The entire wardrobe...
The total for these three sails is $ 945... this gives our cruiser three of his most important sails his working sails.

Next in importance will be a set of #2 head sails for this boat... we will guess that these are likewise available at a cost of ~ $350 each and will cost $700.

Here is a suitable sail for $250


For light airs, nothing beats a cruising chute.. this one is in very good condition and has a sock..

Cost $695...

Bacon Sails & Marine Supply
410-263-4880 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 410-263-4880 end_of_the_skype_highlighting Catalog Number: 129-MASL-111 Luff: 38' 2" Leach: 34' 3" Foot: 19' 3" Head: 0' 0" Price: $695.00 RADIAL HEAD ASYMETRICAL SPINNAKER, 1.5 oz RIP-STOP NYLON. COLORS: PINK AND BLUE. INCLUDES CHUTE SCOOP STYLE SNUFFER WITH HOISTING LINES AND HARDWARE MAKING LOA 39' 1". WHITE TURTLE BAG. VERY GOOD. 21 lbs.

Sail inventory for an engineless southern cross 31
Working sails $1000
#2 headsails $ 700
Cruising Chute $ 700
Spare main $ 400

Trysail $ 300
Stormsails $ 400

Total $ 3500

Given an expected life of 10 years for the headsails and 5 years for the main.. I priced in two mains this gives an annual cost of $350 for sail depreciation.

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:10   #467

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Good Old Boats

Some good boats....
Atom voyages has a URL where boats suitable for minimalist cruising are discussed.

Atom Voyages | Voyages Aboard the Sailboat Atom -* Good Old Boats List - choosing a* small voyaging sailboat

Some Passages .......

"Narrow deep keels and unprotected spade rudders or other modern go-fast features that may compromise handling and strength and restrict shallow water navigation are not on this list. "

"Older boats will require more upgrades (time and money) simply because of their age unless a recent owner has already refit the boat. Many of the boats on this list were built over forty years ago, so virtually all their systems - rigging, engine, rudder, deck core, electrics - require repair or replacement. "

"My feeling is you should get the smallest boat that will suit your requirements rather than the largest boat you feel you can afford. A boat any larger than around 30-foot and 5 tons means significantly bigger, heavier, more expensive gear, higher maintenance costs and more labor to maintain and operate."

Please go to it for further information.


Luperon yacht sales is currently trying to sell a southern cross 31, fully equipped for $ 29K..

That URL is...

LuperonYachts & LuperonProperties ~ Southern Cross 31 Sloop 1980 ~ CRUISING CONDITION

It has many photos of the boat, which looks like a gem...

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:12   #468

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
I won't go into detail regarding the Navigation expense section because it can vary so much and does vary greatly depending upon your cruising plans..

For example: if like me... you are too old for circumnavigating.. and intend to sojourn in Florida Bay and the Bahamas... about $ 250 of chart kits will do you and you only need a hand bearing compass, dividers, weems plotter, compass, and pencils. You can dispense with the rest. This kit costs about $ 300, lasts more than 20 years, and has an annual operating cost of $ 15/yr.

However, if a circumnavigation is your goal.. and you intend doing it in 3 years, you will have a very large folio of charts, sextant, chronometer, barometer, weems plotter, hand bearing compass, dividers, compass, almanac, pilots, and cruising guides... this lot can cost up to $ 6000 depending upon whether you buy official charts, chart copies, BA pilots, or just the cruising guides. Further you must expense it over 3 years, giving an annual operating cost of $2000.and very likely less.

The point I am making here is the following one....


That is, it costs you something every month to keep it going...

There is no free lunch...

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:14   #469

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
There's a fine line between cruising and camping. To me, camping get's old far sooner than cruising.

The cost of cruising is directly proportional to the size of your vessel, your comfort level, and your lifestyle. Whatever you can do while you're still working to get the boat prepared will affect the cost of cruising. And your peace of mind. Replacing the rigging or buying a new to you slightly used sail may pay off with little maintenance over a significant period.

What you carry aboard will affect how much it costs to cruise. It should come as no surprise that engineless, refrigeratorless, vessels with simple sail plans cost less to maintain.

Add fans to the boat to move the air. Add an awning to help control the heat that enters the cabin. Add a wind scoop to suck up every breath of air out there. Add LED lighting to reduce battery consumption, prolong battery life, and reduce the need for a genset, second wind generator or third solar panel. Consider solar and wind power over that genset.

But we want to cruise, not camp. [Spoiler: My answer is in the last paragraph.]

In the "old" days, cruisers took everything they might need when they left the dock. Today, many places stock the basics, abet at different, and some say extortion, prices. What's a cruiser to do?

Prepare smartly. Take only the items you sure won't exist elsewhere or whose quality precludes buying. They sell toilet paper, paper towels, and coffee most places. Finding zip lock bags, Crystal Light lemonaide, Starbucks, and mango chutney, may be more difficult. There are a lot of resources out there, but many of them aren't that current. Organizations like SSCA, CCA, cruising blogs, and this site can give you a reasonably current idea of what to buy and where. There are ports where provisioning has historically been reasonable and available, so plan to stop there, not at the most expensive spots. Please do as I say on this, not as I seem to do.

Waste nothing. That means good portion control and keeping waste to a minimum. You can keep many condiments unrefrigerated after opening if you are scrupulous about preventing anything foreign from getting into the contents. Buying that gallon jar of mayonnaise because it's cheaper than 4 qt containers, or that 1000 packet box may not be the best way to go. Know how to store items so that their life can be maximized. I've had a few memorable meals simply by cleaning out the leftovers from the fridge and making a one pot meal (I call it gruel but some call it burgoo). It can lead to some interesting discussions, and laughs, over sundowners.

Enjoy the challenge of eating simply or what the locals eat. A 20# bag of rice costs far less than the same quantity of potatoes; and lasts longer. Legumes are inexpensive, have lots of nutritional value and can stretch the much more expensive meats. The locals have the same problem as you do - unless it's subsidized by the state, chances are they're avoiding or stretching it too. Growing sprouts can add a fresh taste and crunch to that salad or sandwich. Tarot root is an acquired taste. Kava, to me, has no chance of being tasty - but it has other endearing points.

If you see it, buy it. Now. Chances are the item may not be there tomorrow, or even later today. Buy smartly. Can you get your produce, eggs, and fruits from a family cheaper than at the local market? Can you live with 3rd world meat, not the brand you get back home? Know when the supply boat comes in. Buying when the items are freshest will reduce spoilage and save you money.

Take as little money ashore as possible. What you don't have you can't spend. And lock the credit card(s) away except for cash advances and bit ticket items. Learn the happy hours of the places you frequent. That $3 beer can be offset by munching you dinner at the appetizer table.

Gang up. Rent a car with other boaters for that long excursion to the store, point of interest, or airport. Try group buying of produce, eggs, milk, diesel. All the locals can say is no.

Keep on top of repairs. Finding out that that impeller was half the price and available off the shelf in the _last_ port can be a real eyeopener. By knowing what you'll be needing soon, you may be able to find a better bargain in the next port rather than the one you left.

Talk it up. Meet with other cruisers to gather as much info as you can. We're all cruising and sharing info can be a real cost saver. In some cases, having someone speak the language can reduce the cost, or at least the anxiety, significantly.

Yeah, but what about the money?

Buy in bulk, repackage (those vacuum bagger gizmos seem to keep things much longer than other methods) and store properly. Consider group buying.

Make your own bread. It's remarkably easy (even for a male singlehander), costs far less than buying, seems to last longer, and fills the boat with a mouth watering aroma. Yeah, it uses gas, but you can cook that lasagna in the same oven as the bread or fill the oven with bread tins.

Do the maintenance yourself - or get some assistance from another boater. It may cost you a lunch or cold adult beverage, but it'll be cheaper than having it done, you'll get it done right, and make a friend. Plan on spending some time every day doing the regular maintenance. Consider group buying of oil, gas, diesel, filters, etc.

Learn to wash clothes yourself. You can wash using a 5-gallon bucket but for $100-150 you can buy the items to do it faster, use less water, and better. True, these items require manual labor and a couple hours time, but getting all your clothes back and knowing you've saved yourself $20-50 can be a real treat.

Treat yourself - carefully. Hey, it's cruising, not detention. Besides, a treat now and then helps reinforce the idea of enjoying the experience.

Yeah, but what about the money?!


There are 5 areas I budget for:

1. The vessel - general repairs, general maintenance, annual inspections, bottom paint, sail repair, insurance.
- Insurance will probably be the biggest hit. I don't carry insurance, I'm the insurance but if you're boat's owned by the bank you've got to pay for the privilege and I have no idea what that is for your vessel.
- Do you want to carry 4 gallons of bottom paint for two years before using it? I'd rather buy it down island. It's usually fresher, sometimes better, and buying the paint may offset the cost of the haul. $50/mo
- You might consider carrying some spare sail material and a sail repair kit though.
- If it costs you $1200 for a weekend haul, then put $100/month into the cruising account expense side.
- If you've got a tendency to motorsail, then consider the additional cost of fuel and oil filters, oil changes, zincs, and impellers into the cruising expense over the daily 2hr run to charge the batteries and fridge. I do the latter, run the engine about 2hr/day and probably accumulate 500-600 hrs/year. That's 3 changes @ about $80 each, a new raw water impeller and belt each year, so I budget $30/mo
- Rigging should be changed, or seriously looked at, about every 10 years; unless you've suffered through a serious blow, then you might want to look sooner. Carrying some spare rigging gear can save you time and money. $20/mo
- Things wear out so I carry some spare line, a couple blocks, a repair kit for the winch and windlass, and a spare control for the windlass. Anchors get lost, rode chafes through and things go bump in the night (and sometimes day). I carry 2 primary anchors, a kedge, and a dinghy anchor. I don't carry any spare chain.
- Tools are a sore subject with me. I seem to leave metal souvenirs in most anchorages where I do maintenance, loan that sweet stuffing box wrench to a boater that scoots in the middle of the night, or just don't have that smoke shifter for the inverted flange bolt cap. And neither does anyone else in the anchorage 'cuz my engine's an '00 model - that'd be 1900, not 2000. $20/mo
TOTAL: $220/mo

2. The crew - medical, sanity, diversions, treats. What are the ratio's of expense to income on: movies, TV, internet, books, magazines, medical insurance, medications, travel, treats?
- Some meds that require a script in the US are over the counter elsewhere. Some you can't get. If you're in the last group then you need to budget not only for the meds, but the cost of getting them to you. In some drastic cases, I've heard of family personally delivering the meds. And don't forget that the heat of the tropics can reduce the potency of meds quickly. If you're healthy then $25/mo/person is a good number. I go through that much in bandaids, but I'm a clumsy oaf.
- Sanity is relative. Most landlubbers think that cruisers are a couple of pickles short of a sandwich. Me, I know how sweet this alternative, alternative lifestyle is. I get my sanity by listening to music, the local radio stations, snorkeling, diving, fishing, beach combing, writing (duh!), photography, and reading. Books down island are very expensive so I'm always looking at the book swaps for something new to read. I can be very easily amused, it appears. $50/mo
- But I lose things, things break, I want that ... so $20/mo if the wifi's free or $30/mo if not.
- I'm reasonably healthy but have a emergency flight policy that'll take me from where I am to a US hospital should I need it. $40/mo
- I use ointments, preventatives (swimmers ear), suntan lotion, Advil, and bandaids so I budget $20/mo for that. Most times it's $0 but you gotta cover the bases you think of.
- I have frequent (I should say infrequent) flyer miles and a credit card with $0 balance in case I need medical service now, or need to be sick in bed with a nurse.
TOTAL: $100/mo

3. Feeding the crew - what you eat on land is probably a good idea of what you'll eat on the boat. So, what's the ratio of food to income you have at home?
- I'm doing this again so I've got a better idea of what it's like. I have engine driven refrigeration and a rebuilt, and far more energy efficient, fridge/freezer. It's not large but it does store the basics, doesn't make ice or keep ice cream, but will keep leftovers good for a couple days.
- I tend to eat a lot of rice and black/pinto beans, black bean soup, tortillas, and pasta with some meat thrown in to even things out. I buy rice and beans in big bags, repackage, and forgo things that'll spoil before I can cook them. $50/mo
- I use a pressure cooker most of the time as it cuts down on the fuel used and takes less time thereby keeping the cabin cooler. The cooker's a 6-qt commercial one that'll probably be around after the next ice age. Some folks can what they buy and my pressure cookers large enough for 4 qt bottles in case I find that truckload of strawberries for $1.
- I go through 20# of propane about every 4-5 months. I've got one of those pushpit external propane grills for cooking. $5/mo
- I make my own bread. $20/mo for 10 loaves.
- Protein is a big expense for me. It seems that even that slow running geezer rooster with freezer burn's way more expensive than prime chicken here, but I'm there, not here. I tend to buy canned meat and what fresh/once fresh I can if the price's right. I dislike _having_ to buy because I'm out. $100/mo
- I enjoy fishing. Whomever said fishing wasn't catching was right. And I always seemed to lose that new $25 lure on the first get-go, so now I roll my own. I also carry spare hooks, line, leader, and some cheap lures as barter material. Line wears out, lures get lost, hooks get taken, and the rod and reel wear out so I figure $10/mo for that pleasure(?). Anybody got a good way of testing barracuda for ciguatera let me know - I seem to catch them 80% of the time and they always seem to swallow the hook and 6' of leader too.
- I buy bulk cheese, canned butter, UHT milk, and hot sauces about every 2 months. I've found and tested a number of recipes for making simple, nutritious, and tasty meals. I waste as little as possible. I like sun tea and go through about 2 gallons/week. $70/mo
- After a long passage I splurge for veggies, fruit, and a reasonable meal, letting someone else cook. $20/mo
- Paper and plastic products are replaced when I can. I use a lot of zip lock bags to portion control and reduce spoilage. I buy the trash compactor rated garbage bags as they seem to hold the waste and smell better than other plastic bags. $20/mo
- I have an inflatable dingy with a small outboard. It's probably my one creature comfort. I can run errands, go exploring, or beat it back to the boat before the rains starts and the open hatches catch all that free rain right into my mattress. $20/mo
- In port I fill the diesel, fill the outboard tank with gas, and dump the garbage. If I need water and it's not free, then I try to fill that tank too. I do the high priority items first in case I have to scoot. With diesel at $4-6/gallon, filling up can be a big hit, so before I do, I try to chat up the other cruisers to find the best deal. Diesel $5/gal. Gas $5/gal 2-cycle oil $2/qt Water $0.50/gal Figure $100/mo if there's wind _not_ on the nose.
TOTAL: $415

4. Getting there - unless you're a pro at celestial (and even we pro's look at the GPS first) you're going to need to know where you are, where you want to go, and how to get there. Can you navigate with charts, cruising guides, sailing directions, and guides gleaned from the internet? Do you know you need a chart plotter? And if electronic charts give you a better comfort factor, you're going to need electronic charts. While they've come down in price, I recommend buying charts only when you need them. In my experience, buying them too soon guarantees an update before I install them and most places won't take the chips back.
- As much as I hate to waste the space, I tend to carry a lot of charts. I've got a GPS, not a chart plotter/navcomp. That said, with the price of electronic charts coming down, buying electronically is getting hard to resist. I buy charts and area related books near the next section of my journey. Sometimes I can do a swap, but a lot of the times I seem to be going in the same direction as the other 200 boats in the anchorage. $20/mo
- I invariably need to get the latest, greatest, bestest cruising info in print form and since I don't carry a printer, pay someone to print it out for me. $20/mo
- Then there's Customs, Immigration, Port Captain, Police, taxi fees, Agent fees, and carbon paper. And those foreign language crew forms that need to be in sextuplet form the 10 copies of your ships papers, and the deforestation of the planet. Not to mention the "gifts" or overtime payments that magically appear when checking in or out. $100/port/person
TOTAL: $140/mo

5. Safety Gear - This is important to me. I carry an EPIRB, handheld VHF, flares, PFDs, harness, MOB gear, and an abandon ship bag. I don't carry a life raft yet but I'm saving for one. I cobbled together a power inflater for my dingy than can inflate it in about 20 seconds. That'll have to do until I can find the money. A life raft equates to about 6 months cruising and I'm not convinced that buying anything other than new is the wise thing to do. Most of the safety gear'll last for a number of years but the EPRIB'll probably need a new battery in 3 years and the life raft needs an annual inspection so I'd add $40/mo to the budget for safety items. If I were to charter, I'd bump that up some and buy the raft before leaving the dock.

So, where are we? I get $975 for a slightly enhanced upper 30's, early 1980's sailboat with one crew most of the time. That sounds a bit low, but it's not far off. If you're sailing with others then you've got to bump the costs of food and port fees up some. Some ports require you to come to the dock (at a fee) or grab a mooring (at a fee) or pay their tender driver (at a fee) to get checked in.

Some popular anchorages are going to all mooring and I've not added that fee in either (generally $15/night), nor have I budgeted for sundowner drinks, beach pot-lucks, happy hours, or a lot of items.

I go to the dock only long enough to fill the diesel and if I can get a free overnight I'll do that too. I anchor out 95% of the time because the breeze's better, the bugs fewer, the noise pollution less, and the water's cleaner. Being on the hook is probably the cheapest way there is short of grabbing a free mooring.

I've not included flights home because I'm working on having friends and family come see me, since I'm in that exotic spot, have a boat, and are willing to let them charter it free - as long as I can go along. Cheap bastard, eh?

Nor have I budgeted for one of my vices - t-shirts and mola's. But then I'm weak in a couple areas.

So that's my estimate. $1000/mo for a high and probably $700 for the low. The actual's may be lower but I know this is a fairly good number. Your lifestyle, basic requirements, wishes, dreams, and luck of the draw will affect your actual's. So will where you go, when you go, and how you get there.
Capt. Douglas Abbott
USCG/MCA IV/M.I./C.I. 500-ton Oceans

Thank you again, Capt Douglas !!

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:15   #470

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Bucket Heads
Bucket Heads

While I can certainly see the mirth in defecating into a free standing bucket in the main cabin, as the yacht heaves and rolls at sea, the humble bucket head, which has been with us for centuries, need not be that crude.
Normally a ply or GRP square box is constructed with radiused inside corners using filled epoxy in a manner identical to stitch and glue construction. This box has a plate parallel to it’s bottom and about 2/3 of it’s height above the bottom, which has a circular hole that fits the bucket snugly when the bucket rests on the bottom. The top has an oval hole of the usual size that is centered over the bucket, and generally has a standard toilet seat and lid fixed to it. All surfaces are painted to present an easily cleaned finish. The depth of the box is generally only a fraction of an inch taller than the bucket, so the bucket is “locked” into place when the top is closed. Both the top and plate are removable to facilitate cleaning. The box is generally fixed to the accommodation in a permanent manner.
Traditionally, the bucket is filled a third full with sea water and after use, all and sundry is dumped overboard. However, this may not be feasible in some places. In that case, I recommend filling the bucket a third full with cat litter. If a bucket of fresh cat litter and a scoop is handy and near, the user can cover his deposit with a layer of fresh litter, each time the head is used. When the bucket is getting full, the litter may be rejuvenated by pouring it onto a tray fixed on deck in the sun. The desiccated feces can be scooped out with the traditional litter rake and either dumped over the side or into a plastic rubbish bag for shore side disposal. Once the cleaned litter has dried in the sun, it can be returned to the bucket of the head, or to the bucket of fresh litter, as desired.
Used this way, the bucket head becomes an attractive alternative to the WC - holding tank combo for folks who use their boats evenings, weekends, and the occasional vacation. Between cruises, the head can be cleaned and left empty with a bucket of fresh litter nearby. Since this head has no pumps, plumbing lines, seacocks, etc. there is very little to maintain, and expense is minimal.

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:16   #471

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Baking bread is easy, without an oven. Use a heavy aluminum pot with a lid, grease it ans coat that with coarse corn meal [or masa harina, or ...] and bake the bread on the stove top over low heat. Takes 45 to 55 minutes. I use an aluminum pressure cooker with no seal and no rocker, but Club Aluminum works. All available in thrift stores for under 5 bucks.

Thank you Michael,

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:17   #472

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
I, for one, have lived in an of grid house with a "Humanure" style composting toilet for years. It works great and has no odor. Sure you need a different mentality than just flushing it away but, check it out.
I have a nicely decorated box with a hinged top and an oval hole cut it.On top of that I mounted a nice, wood toilet seat and cover. Start off with around 3" of sawdust (peat moss, dried leaves, shredded newspaper, cat litter, etc.) in the bottom of the bucket.
After you leave your deposit, you cover completely with more cover material. One can go a whole week before needing to dump. At home I carry the bucket out to my compost pile and dump it (then cover that properly). If in a marina, pull the bucket, snap on its original air tight cover, and replace with another bucket (that originally came on board loaded with fresh cover material). One can carry the buckets ashore to dispose of, or go out to sea and dump.
Peeing outside most of the time helps minimize any potential odors and prolongs the time between dumps.
If you are only going out for a couple weeks or less, you can bring the buckets of resources back home to your compost pile. The poo (nitrogen) and pee (phosphorous) are key ingredients to add to your compost that are found in so many man made fertilizers. Now I'm starting to drift. Sorry...
For more info about Humanure check out the same titled book by Joseph Jenkins.
It is very informative and quite an enjoyable read.

Thank you SOLARBRI,,,

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:17   #473

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Cruising On a Budget....
The man who wishes to cruise economically must stray from the beaten path....

Grenville, Grenada is such an outlier... A POE to the country, one finds there only the occasional yacht... Generally, these are about 30 ft LOA, French or European flagged, and not in the best condition.

Grenville has two reef systems to negotiate on entry, and the range is a bearing on the church spire downtown. Without the BA pilot, or Street's guide and good charts, entry has disuaded most cruisers. to the point they don't go there.

However, it is a transport hub, a banking center, and a shopping center, with the best prices on the island.

There are many such waiting to be discovered by the adventurous..

Santa Maria Bay on St. Thomas is among them.. definitely not a place to go in winter or whenever north swell is running.. but it has springs, a lovely beach shoreside firepits.. all in all a lovely spot, untrod by most.

Finding these places requires good charts, and entering them requires accurate sailing directions, which the BA pilots provide, and some of the cruising guides do as well...

So, don't short change yourself, cruising on a budget requires you leave the "madding crowd" for places they don't go, but the locals do. After all, you want the "local" price, which is much cheaper. If you are like me, you also want local friends, who will enrich your experience many fold, however, many of them are shy in the places frequented by the "madding crowd", but easier to find off the beaten track.

This applies to cruising the US east coast too.

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:18   #474

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Cruising Budgets...
Cruising Budgets:

Beth must be given great credit for assembling the data represented by her “How Much Will Cruising Cost You?” paper. Please note that Beth focused upon three different lifestyles. However, she did not break out the data further by boat size.
In my extensive experience of 60 years now, boat size is extremely important. It is the primary driver of Maintenance and Repair Expense. My experience has shown that this expense is a function of displacement, except where light displacement and catamarans are concerned, when the best metric is internal volume, otherwise known as ABS Tonnage, or Thames Tonnage. Why? This is so because all equipment grows in cost exponentially with tonnage. This applies to blocks, winches, ( look for example at the difference between the Andersen 12 St and the 18St winch, the latter is double the cost of the former), sails, ground tackle, and most other items.
Further compounding matters is the tendency of yachtsmen to fill larger boats with more stuff than anyone would tolerate in a smaller boat. In an effort to make boats cheaper, and more responsive, builders have reduced displacement in every size range, to the point that boats in the 40 ft category have insufficient tankage for their needs. One need only look at the lines of jerrycans on the decks of these vessels to prove this. Such deck storage of heavy weights with free surface effect reduces stability, often critically.
The man on a $6,000 per year budget must not follow the crowd. He must recognize that his boat must be simple, easy to repair with the items at hand, and of sufficient displacement to carry sufficient fuel, water, and provisions for his needs. In a boat between 28-34 ft LOA, this means heavy displacement, of between 5 – 8 tons. Our budget cruiser cannot afford the complexity of a water maker, assuming his boat has sufficient motive power to operate one, he needs tankage. He cannot afford fancy electronics, assuming again he has the power to run them, Likewise he cannot afford a RIB with a 15 hp outboard, SSB transceivers, computers, and roller furling. Each or all of these will burden him sufficiently to destroy his budget.
Instead the budget cruiser must allocate percentages of his annual expense for the various categories, with Excursions/Entertainment/Gifts as important as any. Please note that the proforma budget presented allocates $ 1050 or 13% of the budget to these items, 11% of the budget or $960 to Maintenance and repairs. And 40% or $2400 to Provisions. These are the three largest items, amounting to 65% of the budget or $4310. Crew morale demands that an adequate sum be allocated to the Excursions/Entertainment/Gifts category and the Provisions category.
Also please note that this budget assumes that all repairs are performed by the crew, and only the parts are purchased. This means the vessel must carry an adequate tool kit and spares.
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:20   #475

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Cruising Gear Weighs More Than You Think...

Cruising Gear Weighs More Than You Think !

Earlier we discussed outfitting essentials for the micro-budget cruising boat. Let’s now focus on their mass, and how this will affect the sailing qualities of our target boat.
Ground Tackle

200 Ft of 5/16” Grade 43 Galvanized chain_____240#
2 – 44# Bruce Anchors (Bowers)______________88#
2 – 24# Danforth Standard Anchors (kedges)____48#
1 – Luke 3 Piece Storm Anchor_______________70#
1 – Anchor Roller & Pawl____________________40#
2 – 200Ft Nylon Rodes w/ eyes &thimbles______30#


2 - Mains________________________________100#
3 - Staysails______________________________120#
2 – Yankees______________________________150#
1 – Cruising Chute(drifter)____________________40#


250 Ft – 3/8 Stayset X (Halyard spares)_____________12#
300 Ft – 7/16 Stayset(sheet spares)________________18#
40 Ft – ¼” 1x19 Stainless wire( shroud spare) ________40#
Spare Blocks, Thimbles, Sockets, and Turnbuckles_____30#

45 gal Water (Original Tanks)_____________________360#
80 gal Water(additional Tanks)____________________640#
ENGEL Fridge___________________________________45#
LPG Cooker ____________________________________40#
2 – 20# LPG Tanks and fittings______________________50#
Pots, Pans, Dishes, Glasses, Cutlery, Cook Books_)____100#

1 – Chameleon Dinghy with 2 sets of oars & sail rig____200#

Assorted Tools_________________________________100#
Assorted Spares________________________________100#

400 Charts_____________________________________150#
Navigational Instruments & Tools__________________100#
Pilots & Cruising Guides___________________________50#

35 gal Diesel___________________________________280#
Engine Spares___________________________________50#

Edson Bilge Pump Spares Kit_______________________10#
Edson Bilge Pump Diaphragm_______________________5#
Spare thruhulls & Seacocks________________________10#


2- 120Watt Solar Panels___________________________40#
2- Deep Cycle Batteries___________________________170#

Grand Total_____________________________________4026#


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Old 12-06-2010, 08:25   #476

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
Cruising Budget For Southern Cross 31 W/O Engine

Thus far we have outfitted the Southern Cross 31 with the following:
Full suit of sails __________________________________$ 3500
Anchors and gear______________________________________$ 1600
Galley including cooker, sink and hand pump _______________$ 2000
Head including LAVAC, sink, and plumbing _______________$ 1020
Standing Rigging, wire, turnbuckles, sockets________________$ 2116
Running Rigging__________, rope, winches, blocks__________$ 3900
New bottom paint, including haulout______________________$ 1000
LED Lamps, fridge, battery and Distribution Panel____________$ 2500
Dinghy including oars and sailing rig (Danny Green Chameleon)_$1000

TOTAL_____________________________________________ $ 18,316
We have assumed that the hull and deck have been examined and all open items from the checklist are dealt with.

From the above, we can see what a deal a boat in good condition represents.. For example, the boat available in Luperon, DR is bringing only $ 12.000 for the hull, deck, mast, engine, and interior.

ITEM____________Dia____Feet___Price_/_ft__TOTAL____LIFE______Annual_Operating_Cost_____ TOTAL
Main_Halyard______0.31____60_____1.09____$65.40___ __10_________$6.54__________
Staysail_Halyard____0.31___55_____1.09_____$59.95_ ____10_________$6.00__________
Yankee_Halyard____0.31___65_____1.09_____$70.85___ __10_________$7.09__________
Main_Sheet_______0.44____50_____1.33_____$66.50___ __10_________$6.65__________
Yankee_Sheet_____0.44____60_____1.33_____$79.80___ __10_________$7.98__________
Staysail_Sheet_____0.44____48_____1.33_____$63.84_ ____10_________$6.38__________
Preventer_________0.44____35_____1.33_____$46.55__ ___10_________$4.66__________
TOTAL______________________________ ___$452.89_______________$45.29________________$45 2.89
Snatch_Blocks_____________2_____139_____$278.00___ __40_________$6.95__________
MastHead_Sheaves_________3______12_____$36.00_____ _40_________$0.90__________
Preventer_Blocks___________2______50_____$100_____ __40__________$2.50__________
Mainsheet_Triple_Block______1_____150_____$150.00_ ____40_________$3.75__________
Mainsheet_Double_Block_____1______70_____$70.00___ ___40_________$1.75__________
Anderson_12_St_Winch______4_____538____$2,152.00__ __40________$53.80__________
Anderson_18_St_Winch______2_____604____$1,208.00__ __40________$30.20__________
TOTAL________________________________$3,894.00____ _40________$97.35_______________$3,894.00

Lowers__________0.25______48_____4.61_______$221.2 8______20_____$11.06__________
intermediates_____0.25______48_____4.61_______$221 .28______20_____$11.06__________
uppers__________0.25______60______4.61_______$276. 60______20_____$13.83__________
staysail_stay______0.25______30_____4.61_______$13 8.30______20_____$6.92__________
jib_stay__________0.25______40_____4.61_______$184 .40______20_____$9.22__________
back_stay________0.25______40_____4.61_______$184. 40______20_____$9.22__________
Turnbuckles______0.375_____11______70________$770. 00______40_____$19.25__________
Poured_Sockets___0.25_____24_______5_________$120. 00_____40_____$3.00
TOTAL_____________________________________$2,116.2 6___________$83.58_____________$2,116.26

LEDs and ENGLE Fridge

ITEM_____________________________________Size_____ ____#_____Price /ea_____TOTAL_____LIFE____Annual Operating Cost
LED Lamps______________________________________5 watt_______5_______30________$150.00______20______ ___$7.50
Masthead Tricolor, anchor with automatic photodiode_____5 watt_______1______341________$341.00______20______ ___$17.05
Battery Switch___________________________________200 amp_____1_______83_________$83.00_______40________ _$2.08__________
DC Circuit Breaker Panel with volt and amp meters__5 branch circuits__1______$423.00_____$423.00_______40_____ ___$10.58__
Two Conductor Tinned Marine Cable-interior lighting_____12 guage____25_____1.4__________$35.00_______40______ ___$0.88__________
Three Conductor Tinned Marine Cable- mast lighting_____14 guage____40_____1.4__________$56.00_______40______ ___$1.40__________
Solar Panel______________________________________60 Watt_____2______120________$240.00_______20_______ _$12.00__________
Solar Panel Controller_______________________________10 amp_____1______90_________$90.00_______10_________ $9.00__________
ENGLE Fridge_______________________________________45 qt_____1_____800________$800.00________7________$1 14.29__________
Gp 31 deep cycle battery__________________________115 amp hr____2_____130________$260.00________7_________$3 7.14__________
Annual Operating Cost__________________________________________________________$2,478.00_________________$211.90__ ___$2,478.00
Cooke_________________________r_____2 Burnerw/joven_____1_____900_______$900.00_______20________ _$45.00__________
Galley Sink_______________________________Single________1 ______140______$140.00________40_________$3.50____ ______
Galley Pump_________________________Fynspray WS80_____1______250_______$250.00_______40________ _$6.25__________
Seacock, thruhull hose and clamps________Marelon fittings_____1______160______$160.00________20____ _____$8.00__________
LPG Tanks, regulator, valves, and piping___2- 20# Al Tanks_____2______160______$320.00________20_______ _$16.00__________
LPG Regulator____________________________regulator____ __1_______30_______$30.00________10_________$3.00_ _________
LPG Shutoff Valve - Parker Hannifin___________Stainless______1_______80______ _$80.00________40_________$2.00__________
Stainless tube and swagelok fittings___________Stainless______1______120______ $120.00________40_________$3.00__________
TOTAL_____________________________________________ ________________$2,000.00__________________$86.75_ _____$2,000.00
LAVAC WC with Henderson Pump_________________________1______700______$700. 00________40________$17.50__________
Seacock, thruhull hose and clamps________Marelon fittings_____2______160_____$320.00________20_____ ____$16.00__________
TOTAL_____________________________________________ ________________$1,020.00__________________$33.50_ ____$1,020.00
Ctuising Chute_________________________________________1___ __700_____$700.00_________20_________$35.00_______ ___
Main______________________________________________ ___2_____350_____$700.00_________10_________$70.00 __________
Yankee #1____________________________________________1___ __350_____$350.00_________10_________$35.00_______ ___
Staysail #1____________________________________________1___ __250_____$250.00_________10_________$25.00_______ ___
Yankee #2____________________________________________1___ __350_____$350.00_________10_________$35.00_______ ___
Staysail #2____________________________________________1___ __250_____$250.00_________10_________$25.00_______ ___
Trysail___________________________________________ ____1_____200_____$200.00__________20________$10.0 0__________
Storm Staysail_________________________________________1 _____200_____$200.00_________20_________$10.00____ ______
__________________________________________________ _______________$3,000.00___________________$245.00 _____$3,000.00
Chain_________________ 5/16" hiTest__________200___3_____$600.00_________40________$15.00_____
Luke Storm Anchor_________70#________________1__700_____$700.00________40________$17.50_____
Bower Anchors__________44# bruce_____________2___90_____$180.00________40_________$4.50_____
Kedges_______________25# danforth____________2___60_____$120.00________40_________$3.00_____
__________________________________________________ __$1,600.00_______________$40.00

Vertical Axis Trim Tab___________________________________1___200_____ __$200.00________40_________$5.00__________
__________________________________________________ ________________$200.00___________________$5.00___ _____$200.00
Cushions__________________________________________ ___4___100______$400.00_________20________$20.00
__________________________________________________ _______________$400.00___________________$20.00___ _____$400.00
Boat hooks, fire extinguishers, etc_________________________$1000 ________10_____$100.00______$100.00

Annual Operating Cost____________________________________________$968.36
______________________________________GRAND TOTAL_$15,561.15

Depreciation of Southern Cross 31____________________$80,000.00__New in 1980
__________________________________________________ $25,000.00_Today
__________________________Accumulated Depreciation_=_$55,000.00_period_30_yrs_@_$1,833.3 3per_year_=43.6_years

Now, le\t’s review our depreciation assumptions:
The SC 31 sold for $ 80,000 new in 1980.
Currently a good one is on offer for $ 29,000, and several have sold for $ 24,000, so it would seem that the boat is worth about $ 25,000 in operating condition today, 30 years after it was built, and it has depreciated $55,000 or ~ $ 1800 per year. This means the boat will be fully depreciated at the age of 44 years, ie worthless. We know this is unlikely, given depreciation of this kind of asset generally follows the declining balance method, but this exercise does give us the round estimate of a useful life for the boat and everything on it of 50 years. So we can reasonably estimate the annual cost of the boat we purchase by assuming it will continue to depreciate as it has in the past. I recalculated depreciation for the boat assuming a useful life of 50 years, and a residual of $ 2,500. This gives depreciation for the 31st year at $ 980. This means an allowance of $ 1000 per year for operating cost of this boat will very likely be sufficient. Since the stock SC 31 includes an engine.. the difference between our $980 figure and the $968 figure must be allocated to the engine. The engine will cost us $ 22 per year in operating costs, not including it’s fuel.
THE Southern Cross 31 can be cruised without an engine for about $ 970 per year. The boat as we configured it has slightly worn sails with much life left, has a LAVAC water closet, a Princess two burner LPG stove with oven, renewed standing and running rigging, suitable ground tackle, a dinghy, new bottom paint, and no engine.
Most of this expense is depreciation, but what items should we expect to require replacement during our cruise?
From my experience with this gear we should plan on the following expenses:
Replacement_of_sheets_and_halyards_$450_at_10_year _intervals____=__$_____45/yr
Replacement_of_diaphragm_in_Henderson_pump_$_60_at _5_yrs____=_$______12/yr
Replacement_of_LAVAC_seals_$45_at_10_yrs__________ ___________=_$_______5/yr
New_ENGLE_fridge_$_800_at_7yrs____________________ __________=_$_____110/yr
New_Gp_31_batteries_$_260_at_7_yrs________________ __________=_$_______37/yr
Servicing_of_Winches__annually_$_54_for_service_Ki t_ea_5_yrs_____=_$_______10/yr
Diinghy_oars_______$_140_at_10_yrs________________ __________=_$________15/yr
Ship’s_oar_________$_240_at_10_yrs________________ ___________=$________24/yr
Bottom_paint______$_500_at_5_yrs__________________ __________=$_______100/yr
Topside_paint______$_200_at_5_yrs_________________ ___________=$________40/yr
FynSpray_Pumps___$10_at_2_yrs_(_repl_leathers_)___ _____________=$_________5/yr
Deck_Paint_________$120__at_5_yrs_________________ ___________=$________24/yr
Interior_Paint______$120__at_5_yrs________________ _____________=$________24/yr
Plumbing__________$150__at_10_yrs_________________ ___________=$________15/yr
Wiring____________$_100__at_10_yrs________________ ___________=$________10/yr
Replacement_bulbs___$_200__at_10_yrs______________ ___________=$________20/yr
Regalv_Chain________$_300_at_10_yrs_______________ ___________=$________30/yr
Replace_LPG_Tanks___$360__at__20_yrs______________ ___________=$________36/_yr
Replace_Sails_______$3500_at_10_yrs_______________ ____________=$________350_/yr
TOTAL__________________________________________$91 2 / yr
The balance is allocated to a rainy day fund to cover contingencies.

Using the double declining balance method to depreciate the Southern Cross 31, assuming a residual value of $2,500 for the scrap value of the keel, and fittings, a useful life of 50 years, and a boat that is 30 years old gives $ 980 for depreciation.

From these three independent analyses…
1.depreciation of the critical systems,
2.depreciation of the entire boat,
3.expected repairs and replacements
We get the following:
Depreciation of the whole boat $ 970 / yr
Expected Repairs $ 912 / yr
Depreciation of critical systems $ 1,018 / yr

Note the cluster of values. From this we can conclude that the Southern Cross 31, outfitted per our analysis will cost $ 970 per year to operate.

What about dodgers, cabin heaters, weather cloths, and the myriad other things one can put on a boat? Of most importance, any of these added will increase operating cost. Therefore none of these should be added, unless there is a clear need for it.

What about the Compass, depth sounder, anemometer, and myriad other gadgets one can put on a boat? Any of these will increase operating cost if present. None of these should be added, unless there is a clear need for it. Also, we have relegated all of these devices to the “Navigation” category, precisely because the voyage determines the need and presence of many, if not all of these items. However, we have allocated $ 1000 for these Items, and that amount is covered in the anticipated operating costs shown above.


Configured with an LPG 2 burner stove with oven, LAVAC head, new cushions, new standing rigging, new running rigging, sails in good condition, a homebuilt wind vane, boat hook, fire extinguishers, flares, ENGLE refrigerator, solar panels, batteries, LED interior and navigation lamps, a sailing Chameleon dinghy, oars, bulkhead compass, windex, hand lead, and ground tackle, the Southern Cross 31’s annual operating cost is: $ 952.

Our annual cruising budget now is:
Maintenance and Repair ___$ 970
Provisions ____________$ 2,400 ( diet high in legumes, all meals cooked aboard)
Entry & Clearance Fees ___$ 150
Fuel __________________$ 100 ( LPG for galley stove )
Mooring & Marina Fees ___$ -0-
Communication_________ $ 200
Excursions/ Entertainment _$ 800
Navigation _____________$ 700
Insurance, Boat __________$ -0-
Insurance Health ________ $ 240 (money put in rainy day fund)
Souvenirs _____________$ 150
Clothing and Sundries ____ $ 290

TOTAL _____________$ 6,000

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Old 12-06-2010, 08:27   #477

Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Virgin Islands
Boat: Pegasus 45 25 Tons, "Pegasus"
Posts: 531
In Summary....

Engine Costs:.. . . .

Yanmar Style Engine

10_hp_engine______1___$4,500.00___$4,500.00___4500 ___$1.000___
Trans(included)_____1____$500.00_____$500.00___450 0___$0.111___
coupling___________1____$400.00_____$400.00___9000 ___$0.044___
Seacock___________2____$100.00_____$200.00___9000_ __$0.011___
Hose_and_Fittings___1____$100.00_____$100.00___900 0___$0.011___
Muffler____________1____$200.00_____$200.00___9000 ___$0.022___
Thruhulls__________2____$120.00_____$240.00___9000 ___$0.013___
oil_cooler__________1____$160.00_____$160.00___450 0___$0.036___
shaft______________1____$200.00_____$200.00___9000 ___$0.022___
prop______________1____$200.00_____$200.00___9000_ __$0.022___
cutless_bearing_____1____$100.00_____$100.00___240 0___$0.042___
Hourly_Operating_Cost_____________________________ ___$1.34
Traditional styled engine with raw water pump and fresh water pump, heat exchanger, oil cooler, cooling water injected into exhaust riser. Requires quarterly zinc replacement on raw water circuit.
Farymann water cooled Engine 15 w

10_hp_engine_______1___$2,500.00___$2,500.00___450 0___$0.556___
Trans(included)_____0______500.00_______$0.00___90 00___$0.056___
coupling___________1_____$400.00_____$400.00___900 0___$0.044___
Seacock____________0____$100.00_______$0.00____900 0___$0.011___
Hose_and_Fittings___0_____$100.00______$0.00____90 00___$0.011___
Muffler____________1_____$200.00_____$200.00___900 0___$0.022___
Thruhulls___________0_____$120.00______$0.00____90 00___$0.013___
Shaft______________1_____$200.00_____$200.00___900 0___$0.022___
prop_______________1_____$200.00____$200.00___9000 ___$0.022___
cutless_bearing______1_____$100.00____$100.00___24 00___$0.042___
Hourly_Operating_Cost_____________________________ ____$0.80
Note the Farymann diesel is air cooled, no water touches the engine
The engine uses a dry exhaust. There is no oil cooler or heat exchanger or raw water pump or fresh water pump or seacock or raw water plumbing.

Water_Line_Length___25 ft
Displacement__13,500 lb__6_Tons
Boat_Speed_knots_____________4.00_______5.00______ __7.53
Resistance____lb_______________42________70_______ __330.
rpm__________________________738._____1096._______ _2200
L/hr__________________________0.29_____0.35_________ _2.67
Hourly_Operating_Cost______$0.80____$0.80_______$0 .80
TOTALOPERATING_COST _$1.09__$1.15____$3.47

Shaft_rpm____________________246.20____365.45_____ _733.33
Speed_of_Water_at_Prop_knots___3.40______4.25_____ ___6.40
BP__________________________12.68_____12.13_______ 25.20
Efficiency_%__________________42.00%___69.00%_____ _59.00%
Delta________________________150.00____160.00_____ _220.00
Diameter of Prop 22.32873 inches
Pitch_Ratio_%________________70.00%____70.00%_____ _70.00%
Pitch____in___________________17.40______15.63____ ___16.12
Slip__________________________5%________20%_______ _40%

I reposted all the critical pieces of information that were presented, from the beginning of this thread... in this block, so any visitor to the thread can find it.easily.

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Old 12-06-2010, 10:00   #478
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Chesapeake & BVI
Boat: Cal 34 & Pearson 424
Posts: 238
The Martins' Cal 25

Originally Posted by Doodles View Post
Anybody read Dave & Jaja Martin's book about what they had on their Cal 25 when they first circumnavigated? Not 90% of what's being suggested as "essential" here. Its about a mind-set, not lists to be checked off.
As I recall, Dave Martin spent a fair amount of time and money "rebuilding" this coastal cruiser to make it seaworthy before setting out. I think he re-tabbed about every joint. Likewise with my Cal 34, I am adding tabbing to reinforce the structure as I replace the vinyl and carpet lining inside. It costs so little - some glass cloth and epoxy - but adds immensely to my peace of mind and structural strength should I get caught in a storm.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:27   #479
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Location: Chesapeake & BVI
Boat: Cal 34 & Pearson 424
Posts: 238
Oday 34??

"So lets reprise:

The budget minded guy must look for a classic boat of 5-8 tons displacement with an OAL between 28-34 ft.
Given this person has a budget of < $25 k for the boat and ~ $ 10 K for outfitting the boat, the following boats come to mind:

Southern Cross 31
Oday 34
NorthEaster 32
Pearson Vanguard.

Goprisko, you've mentioned an Oday 34 twice as a candidate boat, but did not include it in the run-down of your favored boats in yesterday's posts. I'm surprised you've included what I thought was a light coastal cruiser as a candidate boat.

Please tell us more of your thinking on an Oday 34.
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Old 12-06-2010, 11:00   #480
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So, to recap.............

Actually, although I disagree with some of INDY's thoughts and ideas(admittedly I have not read all - I lost the will to live a few pages back ) their is a lot of good stuff in their to at least think about and then understand why (or why not) to's all about learning how to make your own decisions.

IMO the content of this thread would make a very interesting website (not a Blog ) if laid out well (as a thread not so accessible) - certainly the website would not be short of content
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