Cruising on $500 per Month . . .

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by zeehag

i also have a 35 ft sloop i wont cruise as i will not again cruise a single mast boat. i much prefer this 41--isnt a big deal to save for sails as needed--buy used--, isnt a big deal to repair stuff yourself or have a friend help with a job. isnt much to have a friendly mexican worker repair asomething for a fee--is usually low. usa prices do not reflect the remainder of the earth. if you do not sail out of usa, you will never finish a boat ona beer budget. i cant even afforsd beer, i do have a formosa 41. my boat improves with each relocation. doesnt cost arms and legs. i am on fixed income. i make sure my stuff is done by my standards--if i scrimp on a small part and have to redo it--just means i have to inspect the thing and that is necessary anyway.
oh and regular hull underwater work and zinc replacement included...
there is no reason to restrict low cruising budget boasts to under 34 ft. my parts did not double from 35 to 41 ft sized boat. open your eyes and look past west marine for parts and workmanship. there are many more ways to get something done than at a boatyard . paint isnt a west marine purchase either. shop it. what kind of paint you want--find out what is in it for antifouling, get that and find a less expensive gallon of the same paint. mil spec is awesome -- barter is great.
i am essentially cruising a 41 ft boat that is becoming in better shape than it was when i left san diego in april, and the only time i broke $488 was when i bought my birthday present to myself. and, did i say , my boat's over all condition is improving.......i only bought it 3 yrs ago as a major fixer upper with a blown engine.....among other ills....
never pay retail and never waste anything you can use and has more than 2 uses...

Why would you not cruise with one stick again..what do you know that I dont about 1 verses 2...DVC

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by gello

just because you can do it doesn't mean its a good idea.

I have traveled extensively with people on a shoestring budget (<$500/month)
Like the Pardey's, one finds that they depend on the largess of others
to a great extent though they fail to mention the value of "freebies"
in their budgets.

I have read their books.
I know a some of their many friends.
I know the pardey's accept free tows into port for their engineless craft as well
as free dockage from friends when available.

I cannot state anymore about the Pardeys, but
a short list of the things I have personally witnessed many "budget" cruisers accept
is:

Loans of cars.
Free laundry at sympathetic homes.
Free dockage at private docks or in vacant slips.
Of course water wherever there is an unattended tap.
Free car or dinghy rides to wherever.
Free entertainment at beaches and clubs intended for those buying drinks and food.
For those with computers, copies of software and charts.
WiFi, provided for paying customers taken for free outside restaurants and marinas
Copies of weather faxes or an evening sit-in each day to listen to the weather on
someone else's SSB
Email messages on other boats SSB.
Medical attention from cruiser physicians.
Sneak-in showers at marinas.
Borrowed cell phone usage.
Borrowed books and borrowed and copied cruising guides.
That lovely untouched pardey rice and bean dish at the potluck while the
meat dishes seem to be devoured.
Parts carried in from the US to another country by other cruisers who use air travel
to avoid shipping costs.

and the list goes on and on.

Many of these budget cruisers add a flavour and spice to cruising that is much appreciated and i have some lifelong friends who cruised on very little but pride and
refused to take anything even when offered. They were rare.
Many of the things on the list are things we all accept when offered regardless of financial circumstance, but we reciprocate as well (trade you a east carib guide for a west one).

When talking to shoestring cruisers, I wonder if they include the true value of all
the freebies for which others are paying that enable their lifestyle?

I respect anyone who really does decide sailing is worth the austerity and goes
when they can not when they can afford. I usually help them unbegrudgingly where my abilities and their pride allows.

But lets not be pious about how easy it is to simply turn off the consumer gene,
and do it on the cheap. No engine, no fridge, oil lights. It can be done, but it is hard. Very very hard, unless someone else is paying your freight.

i am sure i will be flayed, flamb`ed, and labeled a bourgeois imperialist but it would be
interesting just once to get an honest assessment of what it costs to cruise on a budget independently just like seagypsy2012 says. And as she says, people did it
long before we were born. Of course they died a lot also.

I am on a tight budget, but i don't think i would enjoy being that tight.
its why i say, just because you can do it, doesn't mean its a good idea.

You left out Facist! lol.I like poor people..gives me lots of inspiration to work hard so that I can afford to decline the invitation to join them..but I despise folks with "means" to help less fortunate then themselves but dont..if the rich dont soon start sharing the wealth,they will soon start sharing the poverty...hey thats already happening isnt it...and someone said its going to get worse!

[zeehag]

cruising with 2 sticks gives many more sail combinations for big winds. btdt with a sloop--is a lot of work. a ketch isnt nearly the work to keep the boat sailing properly. is easier top balance.
my ketch is full keel , so in storms is easy to handle and does 60+kt winds like water off a duck's back. we worked our butts to th ebone on my friend's sloop[ in the gulf--was much work. wasnt worth the exhaustion factor.

[sarafina]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

,they will soon start sharing the poverty...hey thats already happening isnt it...and someone said its going to get worse!

Or BETTER... depending on yer point of view...

[w1651]

Originally Posted by Mark1977

I hear ya eh.. I'm having my dd with milk....

I'm with Vagabond on this one. You had me at DD then you said milk.

[w1651]

Originally Posted by tropicalescape

You left out Facist! lol.I like poor people..gives me lots of inspiration to work hard so that I can afford to decline the invitation to join them..but I despise folks with "means" to help less fortunate then themselves but dont..if the rich dont soon start sharing the wealth,they will soon start sharing the poverty...hey thats already happening isnt it...and someone said its going to get worse!

And how does this teach us to cruise on 500 or less a month?

How did we get to class warfare from a thread about low cost cruising?

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by w1651

And how does this teach us to cruise on 500 or less a month?

How did we get to class warfare from a thread about low cost cruising?

If doing "It" on 500 is tuff..hows it going to be doing "It " on Less..if it is going to get worse?.. i think ..u..in..."SIN"..u..ate..war..fair...I was simple in my commit about the fact that someone commen...ted about how easy or how diffa"cult" it was to live on 500.00 $ a month ...unless someone is a I have it and you dont(Facist)why is it "Class Warfare"..I got my very nice sailboat for FREE...I like poor and rich alike..the rich have more of the things I like...so I guess It is "Class Warfare if you got sum..thang I Want. otherwise its about 500.00 a month...Gees why jump on my cloud everytime I voice my Opin..u..own..everthing..ok one more time u r right and somebody else is wrong... DVC

[gello]

i didn't mean to get to class warfare.
I'm just a hillbilly from Appalachia who doesn't believe anything is free.
Someone always pays, and i was always taught to pay my own way.

my comment was directed at the "free" things many people do not include in
their cost estimates or reports when cruising on $500/month. Its like living in the big subdivision while your parents pay the mortgage and preaching to everyone else
they just aren't trying or working
hard enough or they would be there too. Other cruisers are metaphorically paying
the mortgage for some of these cruisers.

It is just misleading to someone who
is honestly trying to plan a budget and take off.
Especially if they have too much pride to seek the freebies some of which, as i listed them, are just plain stealing. (see previous post)

I have seen too many victims of their own dreams destitute in a strange port because of unrealistic expectations. People i loaned and helped and worried about.
From the ones in annapolis who pawned their sails to live then couldn't afford to retrieve them to innumerable young french families who were told all their life they can sail away to the carribbean on their homebuilt boats and live carefree.
Many end up on the dole in st martin/martinique/guadelope for 6 months then off
trying to scrape together a living or a plane ticket home after their time expires.
They beg for odd jobs or bake bread to live.
Their children are the ones that break your hearts. Out looking for odd jobs
to support the family or looking wistfully at your gadgets till you invite them below to
play the stereo, watch a movie, or play games on the computer.

As much as i cringe when i hear the truly rich discouraging potential cruisers by explaining how you must put aside
$400 per day to cruise the caribbean (no kidding, i have heard that figure),
the consequences of handing out misleading advice on the low end of the budget can
just be tragic.

So my plea is merely for honesty. At $500/month, even a five dollar bill
is 1% of your month budget. if you steal wifi instead of pay the $5 or buy a
drink in the cafe that provides it, you are supplementing your budget by 1%.
A free ride instead of a cab or bus or walking with your groceries can be another 2%. And that free laundry from a friend another 5%. Drop off a bag of garbage at
a marina when visiting a friend instead of paying to dispose of it a couple times and you have another 1%.
Do all this once a week and you are
understating your budget by almost 50%. Take all the stuff on just my short list
and that $500/month quickly becomes $1000.

None of the budgets I have seen account for even one simple health problem.
In many foreign ports or the US even a bad tooth can run into months of cruising budget to fix.
Or a damaged rudder, or stolen dinghy, or even a parent at home who falls ill and
needs help or a deathbed visit.

I understand rates have gone up in the past 2 years substantially, but
we kept detailed lists of everything we spent in 10 years of cruising.
After an initial investment getting the boat ready, all the materials needed,
and ensuring our own health, we found in general four budget ranges of cruising in the carribean (eastern, western, and south america).
And let us not forget, part of the purpose is to enjoy the trip and the local culture.

$500/month - shoestring - what we are discussing here. most cruising time is spent on meeting basic needs of self and boat.

$1000/month - low end - basic living, rarely tours/trips and meals out, reasonable diet, health care only when needed, conservative engine use, occasional low end marina stays in out of the way ports.

$2000/month - just for comparison, this is the poverty level in the US.

$3000/month - quite comfortable - good diet, meals out often and trips weekly, preventative as well as emergency health care, engine use, marina stays in hurricane season, computers and gadgets, flights home every year. Most boat repairs within range and able to hire local workers for some boat chores. A major health or boat catastrophe will still stop you short.


$5000/month and up - The upper class of cruising. No worries till you get to the Med
where you are now back to the shoestring class.

I tried to be a fascist, but it conflicted with my anarchist core and my propensity
to adopt stray puppies and cruisers.

i welcome your letters.

g

[conachair]

$2000/month - just for comparison, this is the poverty level in the US.

Just to put it into a bit or perspective, 4 out of 5 people on the planet live on $300 or less a month, half the people on the planet live on $75 or less a month. That's every other person. Poverty Facts and Stats

It's not basic living standards we are after with our $500 a month, it's luxury. Remember to enjoy it, we're the lucky ones.

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by zeehag

cruising with 2 sticks gives many more sail combinations for big winds. btdt with a sloop--is a lot of work. a ketch isnt nearly the work to keep the boat sailing properly. is easier top balance.
my ketch is full keel , so in storms is easy to handle and does 60+kt winds like water off a duck's back. we worked our butts to th ebone on my friend's sloop[ in the gulf--was much work. wasnt worth the exhaustion factor.

Thank You..I have been educated..one size does not fit all..I would still be wondering in Ignorance if you had not Explaned it to me..DVC

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by gello

i didn't mean to get to class warfare.
I'm just a hillbilly from Appalachia who doesn't believe anything is free.
Someone always pays, and i was always taught to pay my own way.

my comment was directed at the "free" things many people do not include in
their cost estimates or reports when cruising on $500/month. Its like living in the big subdivision while your parents pay the mortgage and preaching to everyone else
they just aren't trying or working
hard enough or they would be there too. Other cruisers are metaphorically paying
the mortgage for some of these cruisers.

It is just misleading to someone who
is honestly trying to plan a budget and take off.
Especially if they have too much pride to seek the freebies some of which, as i listed them, are just plain stealing. (see previous post)

I have seen too many victims of their own dreams destitute in a strange port because of unrealistic expectations. People i loaned and helped and worried about.
From the ones in annapolis who pawned their sails to live then couldn't afford to retrieve them to innumerable young french families who were told all their life they can sail away to the carribbean on their homebuilt boats and live carefree.
Many end up on the dole in st martin/martinique/guadelope for 6 months then off
trying to scrape together a living or a plane ticket home after their time expires.
They beg for odd jobs or bake bread to live.
Their children are the ones that break your hearts. Out looking for odd jobs
to support the family or looking wistfully at your gadgets till you invite them below to
play the stereo, watch a movie, or play games on the computer.

As much as i cringe when i hear the truly rich discouraging potential cruisers by explaining how you must put aside
$400 per day to cruise the caribbean (no kidding, i have heard that figure),
the consequences of handing out misleading advice on the low end of the budget can
just be tragic.

So my plea is merely for honesty. At $500/month, even a five dollar bill
is 1% of your month budget. if you steal wifi instead of pay the $5 or buy a
drink in the cafe that provides it, you are supplementing your budget by 1%.
A free ride instead of a cab or bus or walking with your groceries can be another 2%. And that free laundry from a friend another 5%. Drop off a bag of garbage at
a marina when visiting a friend instead of paying to dispose of it a couple times and you have another 1%.
Do all this once a week and you are
understating your budget by almost 50%. Take all the stuff on just my short list
and that $500/month quickly becomes $1000.

None of the budgets I have seen account for even one simple health problem.
In many foreign ports or the US even a bad tooth can run into months of cruising budget to fix.
Or a damaged rudder, or stolen dinghy, or even a parent at home who falls ill and
needs help or a deathbed visit.

I understand rates have gone up in the past 2 years substantially, but
we kept detailed lists of everything we spent in 10 years of cruising.
After an initial investment getting the boat ready, all the materials needed,
and ensuring our own health, we found in general four budget ranges of cruising in the carribean (eastern, western, and south america).
And let us not forget, part of the purpose is to enjoy the trip and the local culture.

$500/month - shoestring - what we are discussing here. most cruising time is spent on meeting basic needs of self and boat.

$1000/month - low end - basic living, rarely tours/trips and meals out, reasonable diet, health care only when needed, conservative engine use, occasional low end marina stays in out of the way ports.

$2000/month - just for comparison, this is the poverty level in the US.

$3000/month - quite comfortable - good diet, meals out often and trips weekly, preventative as well as emergency health care, engine use, marina stays in hurricane season, computers and gadgets, flights home every year. Most boat repairs within range and able to hire local workers for some boat chores. A major health or boat catastrophe will still stop you short.


$5000/month and up - The upper class of cruising. No worries till you get to the Med
where you are now back to the shoestring class.

I tried to be a fascist, but it conflicted with my anarchist core and my propensity
to adopt stray puppies and cruisers.

i welcome your letters.

g

This is what I was after..the Puppies..I dont fill sorry for cruisers... DVC

[gello]

if you know of a seacoast to which i can sail my boat with a population
living on $75/month where one would actually want to live, much less
in luxury, i am earnestly very interested.

thanks

g

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by gello

i didn't mean to get to class warfare.
I'm just a hillbilly from Appalachia who doesn't believe anything is free.
Someone always pays, and i was always taught to pay my own way.

my comment was directed at the "free" things many people do not include in
their cost estimates or reports when cruising on $500/month. Its like living in the big subdivision while your parents pay the mortgage and preaching to everyone else
they just aren't trying or working
hard enough or they would be there too. Other cruisers are metaphorically paying
the mortgage for some of these cruisers.

It is just misleading to someone who
is honestly trying to plan a budget and take off.
Especially if they have too much pride to seek the freebies some of which, as i listed them, are just plain stealing. (see previous post)

I have seen too many victims of their own dreams destitute in a strange port because of unrealistic expectations. People i loaned and helped and worried about.
From the ones in annapolis who pawned their sails to live then couldn't afford to retrieve them to innumerable young french families who were told all their life they can sail away to the carribbean on their homebuilt boats and live carefree.
Many end up on the dole in st martin/martinique/guadelope for 6 months then off
trying to scrape together a living or a plane ticket home after their time expires.
They beg for odd jobs or bake bread to live.
Their children are the ones that break your hearts. Out looking for odd jobs
to support the family or looking wistfully at your gadgets till you invite them below to
play the stereo, watch a movie, or play games on the computer.

As much as i cringe when i hear the truly rich discouraging potential cruisers by explaining how you must put aside
$400 per day to cruise the caribbean (no kidding, i have heard that figure),
the consequences of handing out misleading advice on the low end of the budget can
just be tragic.

So my plea is merely for honesty. At $500/month, even a five dollar bill
is 1% of your month budget. if you steal wifi instead of pay the $5 or buy a
drink in the cafe that provides it, you are supplementing your budget by 1%.
A free ride instead of a cab or bus or walking with your groceries can be another 2%. And that free laundry from a friend another 5%. Drop off a bag of garbage at
a marina when visiting a friend instead of paying to dispose of it a couple times and you have another 1%.
Do all this once a week and you are
understating your budget by almost 50%. Take all the stuff on just my short list
and that $500/month quickly becomes $1000.

None of the budgets I have seen account for even one simple health problem.
In many foreign ports or the US even a bad tooth can run into months of cruising budget to fix.
Or a damaged rudder, or stolen dinghy, or even a parent at home who falls ill and
needs help or a deathbed visit.

I understand rates have gone up in the past 2 years substantially, but
we kept detailed lists of everything we spent in 10 years of cruising.
After an initial investment getting the boat ready, all the materials needed,
and ensuring our own health, we found in general four budget ranges of cruising in the carribean (eastern, western, and south america).
And let us not forget, part of the purpose is to enjoy the trip and the local culture.

$500/month - shoestring - what we are discussing here. most cruising time is spent on meeting basic needs of self and boat.

$1000/month - low end - basic living, rarely tours/trips and meals out, reasonable diet, health care only when needed, conservative engine use, occasional low end marina stays in out of the way ports.

$2000/month - just for comparison, this is the poverty level in the US.

$3000/month - quite comfortable - good diet, meals out often and trips weekly, preventative as well as emergency health care, engine use, marina stays in hurricane season, computers and gadgets, flights home every year. Most boat repairs within range and able to hire local workers for some boat chores. A major health or boat catastrophe will still stop you short.


$5000/month and up - The upper class of cruising. No worries till you get to the Med
where you are now back to the shoestring class.

I tried to be a fascist, but it conflicted with my anarchist core and my propensity
to adopt stray puppies and cruisers.

i welcome your letters.

g

I think you are mistaken..there are a LOT of things for free ..and there are a lot of folks who Know they are blessed and those are the ones that end up with blessings... as one young sailor on CF said..a ..a..well he said something about KARMA..yea that is what he said.. Karma...DVC

[tropicalescape]

Originally Posted by gello

if you know of a seacoast to which i can sail my boat with a population
living on $75/month where one would actually want to live, much less
in luxury, i am earnestly very interested.

thanks

g

I can think of many places..I know where there is a 3 bedroom house in Mexico for 7500.00 with a 1/4 acre lot and a 6 bedroom Ranch with 200 acres for 26,000 US..you got the stuff?Its out there!I know that there are many ,very many mexicans that would love to have these props.Now if they can afford them on 500.00 a month..I dont know..but I would think that somebody that could afford a sailboat could live there for 500.00 and be HAPPY! YeHaa..DVC

[gello]

blessed or not, i'm keeping the puppies.
g