Cruising a financially efficient way to see the world?

[JPA Cate]

Sardinebreath, and everybody,

That all depends on what kind of boat you buy, it's age, your skill levels for fixing it, and what you want to do with it. When your boat is your only home it also changes the picture, as does international vs local cruising.

Even if Mark J's estimated costs were a little high, and once you already have a well found boat, cruising's cheaper than land travel, at least for us. It is the comparison between living rent free and not rent free that does it. Our land travel has greater lodging, food, and fuel costs, for one.

[sardinebreath]

Originally Posted by Ann T. Cate

Sardinebreath, and everybody,

That all depends on what kind of boat you buy, it's age, your skill levels for fixing it, and what you want to do with it. When your boat is your only home it also changes the picture, as does international vs local cruising.

Even if Mark J's estimated costs were a little high, and once you already have a well found boat, cruising's cheaper than land travel, at least for us. It is the comparison between living rent free and not rent free that does it. Our land travel has greater lodging, food, and fuel costs, for one.

When your boat is your only home it begins to stretch the boundaries of "tourism". Part of tourism generally involves getting away from home. Otherwise, staying home and watching travel shows for vacation would definitely qualify as the cheapest form of tourism. When you use your boat to get to places you want to see and then go ashore for awhile, you end up duplicating a lot of costs (you have all the costs associated with the boat plus the costs of hotels and travel when you go exploring inland). I know several people who, when cruising, feel uncomfortable leaving their boat unattended long enough to do any in-depth exploring and/or resent how much it costs to leave it somewhere where it would feel safe to be away for a week or two. Obviously, there are aspects of cruising that can't be replicated in any other form of tourism/travel and I'm certainly not suggesting that it isn't worth the cost. I just think that the idea that it's the cheapest form of tourism is beyond silly. Perhaps it's true that you yourself can't travel on land as cheaply as you do on your boat but that could only be if you require fairly refined amenities on land. I'm pretty sure that I could travel for a small fraction of whatever it costs you to cruise--if all your expenses were truly accounted for.

[sardinebreath]

I also think that it's not doing a service suggesting to anyone that boating can be cheap. I have yet to hear anyone say, "Wow! Owning a boat is just so much less expensive than I thought it would be!" It's almost always the opposite. Some people do the boating tourism thing seeming to get by off the fumes from an oil rag, but they are few and far between, while millions of people travel on a shoestring budget in other ways.

[JPA Cate]

SB, Of course, you're right, you probably can travel on land cheaper than we do, and good on you, too, for that. However, you might be interested in the $500/month thread, if you're interested to see how those who really want to cruise cheaply do it.

I think you're right that long term cruising is different from tourism, and even more so when one stops to work in a foreign country. Maybe part of it depends on what "seeing the world" means to you.

The thread is about the financial efficiency of seeing the world by sailboat, and about the first comment was that it's the most expensive way to travel 3rd class. I'd say 4th class. The 1st class would definitely be prohibitively expensive for me. It's also mainly water based, as opposed to most tourism.

Where land travel is involved, from the boat, you're right, you have to provide shelter for the boat, which is not then providing shelter, or a place to cook. It's also true that marinas vary in quality, expense, location and other ways.

But I do think Mark J makes an interesting point in that when you meet your shelter needs by staying on a mooring, or mainly at anchor, your food needs by cooking at home, doing most of your own work on the boat, you can do your actual cruising for about what you spend on land, depending on where you live, of course. When one couples that with the $10,000 boat, then the costs start really diminishing.

Mostly sailors gripe about costs, and I've never heard anyone say how much money they'd saved by buying a boat, either! That's actually pretty funny!

Ann

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by sardinebreath

I also think that it's not doing a service suggesting to anyone that boating can be cheap. I have yet to hear anyone say, "Wow! Owning a boat is just so much less expensive than I thought it would be!" It's almost always the opposite. Some people do the boating tourism thing seeming to get by off the fumes from an oil rag, but they are few and far between, while millions of people travel on a shoestring budget in other ways.

Wow, owning a boat is just so much less expensive than living in our house.

There you have heard it but it comes with the caveat that we live on it so it cancels out a lot of other expenses. The idea that as a tourist (implying a few weeks a year of use) is cheaper than just being a traditional tourist doesn't hold up when you consider all the costs.

[chasfgr]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

I'll pose the question to those with voyaging experience. In comparison to "normal" means of travel (plane/hotels/cruise lines), how does owning and sailing your own boat compare?

Does it come down to the length of time you intend to travel? Does the number of places and distance factor?

Higher entry cost -
Higher personal energy requirements -
Greater personal choice -

Lower ongoing costs -
Lower area coverage -
Lower luxury living -

[Hard Rock Candy]

When I retired I had 60,000 dollars and 750 dollars a month income, I bought a boat and went sailing . I spent all that money and no more to live for ten years on the boat and off. Then I sold the boat for 17,000 dollars and came home. Bringing those numbers down to sizable chunks came to 1,103 dollars for every month I spent on the boat Including my transportation home and my living at home and my transportation back to the boat 9 times. That's as far as I can break it down. I retired, I spent money, I came home. Oh it does not cost me anything except Power and telephone and internet and normal food and trans portation etc. to live at home. So when I was on the boat it cost me nothing to keep my home expenses paid. When I was home it cost me about 125.00 a month for boat storage, in a marina or on the hard. All the money I spent total was the 73,000 Dollars output. Mac

[sailorchic34]

Originally Posted by sardinebreath

I don't see how that statement can hold up once you include the purchase price and everything you've spent on your boat while you've owned it. Yeah, you'll eventually get something back if you end up selling her, but nothing remotely close to what you've got in it. The cheapest way to be a tourist is probably to put on a backpack and hitch from hostel to hostel. That would cost some minute fraction of what it would cost to do it on a boat.

Really depends on the boat and lifestyle. If all you have is a boat and no house, car, etc, it can be a fairly inexpensive lifestyle. Specially with a simple older boat that did not cost an arm and a leg to begin with. If you own a house and a boat, then yes a boat can be expensive.

[sardinebreath]

Originally Posted by sailorchic34

Really depends on the boat and lifestyle. If all you have is a boat and no house, car, etc, it can be a fairly inexpensive lifestyle. Specially with a simple older boat that did not cost an arm and a leg to begin with. If you own a house and a boat, then yes a boat can be expensive.

Can be true. But that's another idea being propagated here that isn't really doing anyone any favors. That boat which doesn't cost an arm and a leg up front, is not infrequently the one that costs an arm and a leg down the road a piece. Getting a boat in shape and outfitted sufficiently so that it can safely be cruised and all systems relied on, isn't cheap. There ain't no such thing as a free boat. Or a cheap one, if you plan on relying on it.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by JulieMac

I'll pose the question to those with voyaging experience. In comparison to "normal" means of travel (plane/hotels/cruise lines), how does owning and sailing your own boat compare?

Does it come down to the length of time you intend to travel? Does the number of places and distance factor?

Of course it depends. If you just stay in an expensive marina, it's very financially inefficient.

But for instance, we anchored at Orpheus Island for a few days, could have stayed as long as we liked. Accommodation at the resort there was "On special" at $1200 per person per night.

[Group9]

We were in Key West (the old fashioned way, we flew there and stayed in a hotel) a few months ago.

One of the things that spurred us to start getting ready for our next cruise was realizing that we spent as much in five days (about $4000) all told, as it would have cost us to be there for a month or two on the boat.

Unless you stay in marinas ever single night, cruising is always going to be cheaper than traveling like a normal tourist. In Key West, for instance, a night at a marina is probably very comparable to staying in a hotel in the old part of town.

[weavis]

Originally Posted by Group9

We were in Key West (the old fashioned way, we flew there and stayed in a hotel) a few months ago.

One of the things that spurred us to start getting ready for our next cruise was realizing that we spent as much in five days (about $4000) all told, as it would have cost us to be there for a month or two on the boat.

Unless you stay in marinas ever single night, cruising is always going to be cheaper than traveling like a normal tourist. In Key West, for instance, a night at a marina is probably very comparable to staying in a hotel in the old part of town.

naah.

The average person does not have months to go on vacation. They have 2 weeks a year.

Add in the cost of your boat, the maintenance, the insurance, the fuel, the etc etc... and use it for 2 weeks a year.

This "particular"ising of one part of the costs doesnt work in real terms. Not to mention that it would probably take you months to get there if you lived in Vancouver and needed to sail there first!

[Bulawayo]

Understand your points but also the average North American gets two weeks annual holidays whilst the average European, Asian, African, Australian etc gets by with 4 weeks holiday! Owning a boat as a North American does not mean the most effective use of money for Mr Average American. However, this is may be an inducement to Mr Average American to stop work and go sailing? Hence the cost of overall sailing - for us it is a very effective way to travel - our properties rented and producing a regular income plus a low cost of living. Life can be good!!

[Group9]

Originally Posted by weavis

naah.

The average person does not have months to go on vacation. They have 2 weeks a year.

Add in the cost of your boat, the maintenance, the insurance, the fuel, the etc etc... and use it for 2 weeks a year.

This "particular"ising of one part of the costs doesnt work in real terms. Not to mention that it would probably take you months to get there if you lived in Vancouver and needed to sail there first!

I guess, I should have mentioned I was taking into consideration the last time I went cruising for a year.

Plus, I live a lot closer to the Keys than you do. It's about a three day sail for me.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by Group9

We were in Key West (the old fashioned way, we flew there and stayed in a hotel) a few months ago.

One of the things that spurred us to start getting ready for our next cruise was realizing that we spent as much in five days (about $4000) all told, as it would have cost us to be there for a month or two on the boat.

Unless you stay in marinas ever single night, cruising is always going to be cheaper than traveling like a normal tourist. In Key West, for instance, a night at a marina is probably very comparable to staying in a hotel in the old part of town.

I think you're comparing apples and oranges.

You can also stay at a campground and it would be significantly cheaper, and more comparable. I think you have to compare staying in a slip to a hotel, and compare camping out to anchoring out.

If you eat at restaurants, the cost between cruising and other forms of travel are similar. If you want to cook your own food, you need to compare self-catering options. Again, the cost should be similar.

It may be that seeing some big, popular coastal cities could be cheaper and more accessible by boat, but if you want to see anything inland you'll be paying the same or more. You then also have to have your boat in a safe place.

I think some people are doing selective math, and comparing staying at a hotel room to living for free on a boat, when a boat has acquisition, maintenance, and ongoing costs that aren't being considered. If you're staying somewhere for a month, you can often rent a house for a month at significant savings over a hotel.

My current impression is that boating is more expensive and more limiting, unless you only want to visit coastal locations, where there may be a certain equilibrium. If you have a nice boat, the boat itself is going to be expensive either in terms of cash or time commitment, and likely both. You'll be spending some of your "vacation" time working on your boat.

You must also consider that the experience, for better or worse, will be different. If you're cruising, you're likely to be spending a lot of time with cruisers or in or near marinas. If you're traveling on land, you will also be spending time with the people near your chosen accommodations.

The funny thing about travel is that the more you spend, the more you can control (read: limit) your access to the local culture. If you don't spend much money, you're going to have a different, more exposed experience (for better or worse).