Cruisers Vs Sailors

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Puleaze. Not trying to be provocative, KMac, are you? I'm a sailor, cruiser, racer and liveaboard. Yes, I race my home and sometimes I cruise with the kayak on the deck. I'm always sailing but sometimes I have to motor. Oh where do I fit in your narrow paradigm?

We can eliminate racer right off the bat. Racers don't take their home and kayak with them to race----too heavy.

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by gamayun

Puleaze. Not trying to be provocative, KMac, are you?

What ever gave you that idea?

[JPA Cate]

We could re-name the thread..... "People Who Work and Play on the Water: compare and contrast their values." Which sounds somewhat less contentious than "vs," as in combat.

Even among the group called cruisers, there are various manifestations. I think full time liveaboard cruisers are a very small part of the total cruising population, and among them, there are lots of variations.

Where we are at anchor now, there is one other US boat, on a mooring. It has come here over a two year period, with two young people on board. By "young", I mean the woman is still of child bearing age. Most of the other boats in here are on moorings. It is common in this location for people to bring their boat out to a club mooring, and spend a night, or two, or three. Motorboats of various sizes, and sailboats. Many of these never anchor, only pick up moorings, which are shared with others by customary agreements. There is one other sailboat anchored out today, a smaller one, who likes his privacy. One of the moored boats dragged yesterday while at anchor on a small Delta.

Most of the people out here are retired, but it is school holidays, so there are a few family people out here, too, but mostly see those on weekends.

To recap: for this one small bay, we have by the hours rentaboats, daytrippers, overnighters and liveaboard cruisers, both motor vessels and sailing vessels.

We're all cruising. Some of the mooring sailboats un-moor and take them for day sails. To further complicate matters, some of the crews are sailors, some, not so much; some are knowledgeable, some, not so much.

So, categorize us at your peril: it's like herding cats!

Ann

[Mike OReilly]

I didn’t realize this was such a contentious question. I just thought we were having some fun. If this is a serious discussion, then I’m outta here.

[Don C L]

Ok now that this urgent issue has been completely settled, let's turn to a really good thread!
http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ta-158330.html

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I didn’t realize this was such a contentious question. I just thought we were having some fun. If this is a serious discussion, then I’m outta here.

It's not a contentious question but some will try and make it that way for whatever reason. The wide diversity of boaters is what makes it so unique.

[gamayun]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

We can eliminate racer right off the bat. Racers don't take their home and kayak with them to race----too heavy.

Whaat?!? Now I know you're just trying to be provocative. No, I do leave the kayak on the dock when I race, but I definitely take my home -- all the time actually. Was racing this past Sunday and have two more races already lined up for January though the 2017 calendar is not out yet. However, wind sucks at this time. Was barely moving at 4 knots of breeze on Sunday. Would rather it be blowing hard, ideally around 20 knots.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

We can eliminate racer right off the bat. Racers don't take their home and kayak with them to race----too heavy.

You can't eliminate racers though because they are the best sailors.

Some are also excellent cruisers and seaman as well but they do not anchor a lot............

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymgiZTeKyqg

[barnakiel]

Originally Posted by Training Wheels

Umm, don't most cruisers live aboard?

Eh, it may depend on where you are. Here most liveaboards do not cruise. They just live aboard. The reverse is also true - look at ARC cruisers who just cruise but otherwise live in their land based homes in Germany, England, Sweden and other cold and boring places.

But maybe when you look at cruisers congregations in Florida, California or Tokyo (3 samples, 2 of which transitory) you will get a different view.

b.

[svHyLyte]

What rubbish. I have never--in 50+ years of sailing--pulled into an anchorage and had someone ask us whether we were "sailors" or "cruisers". We sail, essentially, every weekend. Sometimes from our home port and back and often times between ports for daze or weeks at a time. We are no less at home on the yacht than we are in our land house. My (much) better half sleeps better on the yacht; I sleep better in our land house, since I don't worry about the anchor dragging or the wind changing and putting us off a lee shore (although, truth be told, I have more than once awakened at our land house when the wind direction has changed only to realize that we not in danger of dragging!). In an anchorage, and most marinas, everyone is a "sailor" (save the poor sods with motor boats) and no one cares a fig. Moreover, whenever two boats are headed in the same direction, both are usually "racers". I have yet to meet the sailor/cruiser that does not trim his sails a tad to try to best his/her unwitting competition, all the while trying to look nonchalant about the affair. (I/we have a great advantage in that department as we have a very fast boat, regardless of how poorly we may trim her from time to time, so we can casually by-pass most of our unknowing competitors, which gives us a chuckle and at least some of them fits as they uselessly fine trim to pinch a few more tenths of a knot out of their aging sails.) Once one reaches an anchorage, or the marina, and settles in for sun-downers, or "moon shots" for late arrivals, we're all sailors, no?

FWIW...

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by svHyLyte

What rubbish. I have never--in 50+ years of sailing--pulled into an anchorage and had someone ask us whether we were "sailors" or "cruisers". We sail, essentially, every weekend. Sometimes from our home port and back and often times between ports for daze or weeks at a time. We are no less at home on the yacht than we are in our land house. My (much) better half sleeps better on the yacht; I sleep better in our land house, since I don't worry about the anchor dragging or the wind changing and putting us off a lee shore (although, truth be told, I have more than once awakened at our land house when the wind direction has changed only to realize that we not in danger of dragging!). In an anchorage, and most marinas, everyone is a "sailor" (save the poor sods with motor boats) and no one cares a fig. Moreover, whenever two boats are headed in the same direction, both are usually "racers". I have yet to meet the sailor/cruiser that does not trim his sails a tad to try to best his/her unwitting competition, all the while trying to look nonchalant about the affair. (I/we have a great advantage in that department as we have a very fast boat, regardless of how poorly we may trim her from time to time, so we can casually by-pass most of our unknowing competitors, which gives us a chuckle and at least some of them fits as they uselessly fine trim to pinch a few more tenths of a knot out of their aging sails.) Once one reaches an anchorage, or the marina, and settles in for sun-downers, or "moon shots" for late arrivals, we're all sailors, no?

FWIW...

Yes, we are all sailors but you aren't really a racer until you line up against 20-50 boats that are exactly like the one you are sailing. (one design)

Then you will know how good your sail trim is, course side selection, boat setup, etc is as compared to your peers

[kmacdonald]

Originally Posted by thomm225

Yes, we are all sailors but you aren't really a racer until you line up against 20-50 boats that are exactly like the one you are sailing. (one design)

Then you will know how good your sail trim is, course side selection, boat setup, etc is as compared to your peers

Yes, one design racing is great but it takes the cruiser out of the boat. Sorta like IMOCA racing, great boats to race but not cruise. A different sport altogether.

[Pelagic]

A good sailor knows when to turn on the engine.

[Polux]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

Yes, one design racing is great but it takes the cruiser out of the boat. Sorta like IMOCA racing, great boats to race but not cruise. A different sport altogether.

Humm, cruising is not a sport. Sailing is. IMOCA are not one design boats, Volvo racers are (the last ones).

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by kmacdonald

I think there is a big difference between cruisers and sailors. Cruisers sail to get from point A to B. Sailors sail for the pure enjoyment of sailing. There may be some who are both. Live-aboards are a totally different breed.

I think you are way off in your labeling of people. For starters, you've assumed that everyone has a sailboat when not everyone who cruises does.

I cruise in a trawler, I don't "sail". I don't cruise to get from point A to point B. I may have a destination when I cruise but it's only a place to turn around and come back home. It's as far as I am going on that particular cruise and even that may not be set in stone. I'll stop at different towns and anchorages along the way. So really, the cruise is the destination.