Crossing the Equator

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

^^^^
I became a shellback (on my own bottom) in 1987, and have done a few since then... but never heard of the "golden shellback) club. So, what is it based upon?

Jim

Originally Posted by Jamme

According to https://www.military.com/history/202...cates.html/amp it represents having crossed the date line.

Not an authority on this but... as a USN submarine vet, I don't think that website is correct. My understanding was that Golden Shellbacks were those who crossed the Equator, where it intersects the International Date Line. I've also not aware of any Top Secret variant; looking at a map with the equator I don't see anyplace that would probably qualify for such a designation.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Nah it's about the experience not the award

Well just know, I've got a spare if you need one...

[Jim Cate]

looking at a map with the equator I don't see anyplace that would probably qualify for such a designation.

.

How come? It is where the equator (0 deg N or S) crosses the date line. The date line is based on 180 deg E or W, but wanders a bit for political and practical reasons. However, at the equator it is where it belongs, right on the anti-meridian, or 180 deg.

So, it is where two orthogonal lines cross, and that describes a point, not an area. So, to cross the equator at the dateline, a ship must sail across that singular point on the earth's surface. If you look at a chart, there is no compelling reason for a ship to be in that area and so it seems likely that there are damn few "golden shellbacks" strutting about claiming club membership... at least legitimately!

Jim

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

.

How come? It is where the equator (0 deg N or S) crosses the date line. The date line is based on 180 deg E or W, but wanders a bit for political and practical reasons. However, at the equator it is where it belongs, right on the anti-meridian, or 180 deg.

So, it is where two orthogonal lines cross, and that describes a point, not an area. So, to cross the equator at the dateline, a ship must sail across that singular point on the earth's surface. If you look at a chart, there is no compelling reason for a ship to be in that area and so it seems likely that there are damn few "golden shellbacks" strutting about claiming club membership... at least legitimately!

Jim

At least 3500 that I am sure of on my carrier the Carl Vinson CVAN70 ( now just CVN70)
We had speed screws for a few years and could outrun an La Class attack sub.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by garyfdl

Not an authority on this but... as a USN submarine vet, I don't think that website is correct. My understanding was that Golden Shellbacks were those who crossed the Equator, where it intersects the International Date Line. I've also not aware of any Top Secret variant; looking at a map with the equator I don't see anyplace that would probably qualify for such a designation.

To be exact 0 Deg Latitude by 180Deg Longitude. And no not a reason at all except bragging rights. Just like crossing the north pole in a sub . No proof it ever actually happened but bragging rights.

[garyfdl]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

.

How come? It is where the equator (0 deg N or S) crosses the date line. The date line is based on 180 deg E or W, but wanders a bit for political and practical reasons. However, at the equator it is where it belongs, right on the anti-meridian, or 180 deg.

So, it is where two orthogonal lines cross, and that describes a point, not an area. So, to cross the equator at the dateline, a ship must sail across that singular point on the earth's surface. If you look at a chart, there is no compelling reason for a ship to be in that area and so it seems likely that there are damn few "golden shellbacks" strutting about claiming club membership... at least legitimately!

Jim

I'm referring specifically to something that would be designated 'Top Secret'. Crossing at the juncture of the Equator and Date Line wouldn't qualiify (IMO).

It would more likely be where a sub 'strayed' into territorial waters of another country. I don't see many countries on the Equator where we would have have much interest in doing that. But, I could be wrong.

As far as the number of Golden Shellbacks, you might be surprised. A attack carrier carries ~5000 personnel. Navy ships will go out of their way (with permission) to make the crossing at that point, and it's been going on for over a century (from what I understand).

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

.

it seems likely that there are damn few "golden shellbacks" strutting about claiming club membership... at least legitimately!

Jim

Even fewer that can lay claim to do it while straddling the century - assuming you believe the story of the Warrimoo: https://www.oldsaltblog.com/2018/12/...times-at-once/

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jamme

According to https://www.military.com/history/202...cates.html/amp it represents having crossed the date line.

Actually just crossing the international dateline aka 180° is simply the order of the golden dragon.

Most of this stuff means little today outside of Naval service but 150 years ago it ment a lot to have these distinctions .

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by newhaul

At least 3500 that I am sure of on my carrier the Carl Vinson CVAN70 ( now just CVN70)
We had speed screws for a few years and could outrun an La Class attack sub.

For real? I wonder what the incremental cost to the taxpayer was to plot that specific course, just to have this whimsical experience.

But clearly I was wrong... there are indeed many such folks around. However, not all of the 3500 folks on board could possibly have personally crossed that point. Only an unidentified few would have actually been directly over the intersection, and the rest should have lower class certificates as being "near misses".

What strange things sailors do for amusement at sea!

Jim

[SY Harmony]

Anyone in NA can get this one.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

For real? I wonder what the incremental cost to the taxpayer was to plot that specific course, just to have this whimsical experience.

But clearly I was wrong... there are indeed many such folks around. However, not all of the 3500 folks on board could possibly have personally crossed that point. Only an unidentified few would have actually been directly over the intersection, and the rest should have lower class certificates as being "near misses".

What strange things sailors do for amusement at sea!

Jim

In other words you wish you had that bragging right at the bar in avalon right?

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by newhaul

In other words you wish you had that bragging right at the bar in avalon right?

On a sailboat it'd be worth the brag.. You actually worked for it..

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by boatman61

On a sailboat it'd be worth the brag.. You actually worked for it..

Golden yes but I have sailed every ocean except the Atlantic on my own bottom and would not recomend the Arctic even in summer but if you do go carry warm clothes.
Same for the southern ocean warm clothes

[boatman61]

Brrrrr... Don't like N of 55* and only dipped my toe S of 40* on a 30ftr before scooting back ahead of a front and hid in Port Fairy for 3 days while it blew through.
But technically I've done every ocean except Antarctica.. just not always on my own bottom..
Kudos..

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Brrrrr... Don't like N of 55* and only dipped my toe S of 40* on a 30ftr before scooting back ahead of a front and hid in Port Fairy for 3 days while it blew through.
But technically I've done every ocean except Antarctica.. just not always on my own bottom..
Kudos..

Kind of necessary Arctic deck suits still have 2 but hope I never need them again