Container ship dumps containers in Pacific

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by ameehan

IMHO people are looking at this problem from the wrong end of the telescope. Merchant vessels pay dues on gross tonnage ( a volumetric measurement), the volume of the enclosed cargo spaces . If the rules were changed to make it uneconomic to carry containers as deck cargo and to carry them securely in enclosed cargo spaces the problem would disappear overnight.

"Pay Duers" to whom??

[Westcliffe01]

I have seen a few youtube videos of containers falling off boats while they were loading them and the majority went straight to the bottom in a few seconds. Now if those containers had been filled with 2x lumber, that would have yielded a different result...

[scfoster]

Originally Posted by ameehan

IMHO people are looking at this problem from the wrong end of the telescope. Merchant vessels pay dues on gross tonnage ( a volumetric measurement), the volume of the enclosed cargo spaces . If the rules were changed to make it uneconomic to carry containers as deck cargo and to carry them securely in enclosed cargo spaces the problem would disappear overnight.

Meet my friend Archimedes. The gross tonnage is a factor displacement, which factors in the weight of everything on the ship. Each vessel has a max displacement, which accounts for all of those boxes stacked so high. So enclosed space, other than the weight of the plates, has no bearing on gross tonnage.

Regarding the loss of boxes, think of a bull whip. The velocity (and forces) at the end are a LOT higher than at the handle. Same goes for the containers (and restraint systems) at the top of the stack. The increase in losses, while affected by the number of storms, is due to ships leaving port at max capacity more frequently.

The simple answer is to slap some strain gauges on the restraints, with 3 axis gyro chips and measure what's going on up there. Once they have data, they can fix the problem, which it is.

[geoleo]

Originally Posted by EXTangen

Maybe the UN can impose some intelligent regulations?

That would be a first!!

[impulsive19]

According to a recent article in Sail magazine - at least three of the participants in the Vendee around the World race have had their hulls pierced by UFO's (unidentified floating objects) and had to be rescued or drop out of the competition.

[NevilleCat]

A financial imposition for every lost container.
Sufficient that it forces the shipping companies to fix the problem.
Being able to ship stuff cheaply around the world is probably the root problem in humankind's current environmental and societal issues.
It's true long term cost is not reflected in the current short term costings.
That $3 Kmart T shirt should not exist.

[scfoster]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

A financial imposition for every lost container.
Sufficient that it forces the shipping companies to fix the problem.
Being able to ship stuff cheaply around the world is probably the root problem in humankind's current environmental and societal issues.
It's true long term cost is not reflected in the current short term costings.
That $3 Kmart T shirt should not exist.

Shipping companies have an incentive to fix the problem. It's called insurance rates. As the article noted, the loss rates were dropping until this year. No doubt this is being investigated.
Shipping stuff cheaply around the World has been a solution to lifting vast swaths of people, who lived in crushing poverty, out of that condition.
You are correct, the $3 Kmart T shirt should be $2, if we can figure out how to achieve that goal. Clothing, food/water, and transportation costs are regressive costs on the bottom half of the World's population. Reducing those costs improve the human condition, not the reverse.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Sailing August

Containers are not water tight. The bottoms have wooden floors. Floating or sinking depends on the buoyancy of the cargo.

I've never unloaded a container with a wooden floor.. and I've unloaded a few as a fork truck driver...

[boatman61]

"We were paying £1,600 per container in November, this month we've been quoted over £10,000," says Helen White.

The founder of start-up Houseof.com, which imports lighting from China, says the rise in shipping costs means she's making a loss on what she sells.

She's one of many UK importers facing soaring freight costs amid a global shipping crisis that may last months.

A shortage of empty shipping containers in Asis is behind the problem

[scfoster]

Originally Posted by boatman61

A shortage of empty shipping containers in Asis is behind the problem

Shipping containers are easy to manufacture. Not so the ships to carry them. According to a friend who is in the reinsurance biz in Bermuda, many smaller ships have been scrapped during the Covid-19 downturn. Turns out the scrap value was higher than keeping empty ships sitting around (article here). Of course this was short-sighted. My friend stated "now watch container prices skyrocket when this pandemic begins to wane". Guess he was right.

[ameehan]

Methinks you are mistaken,
Weight above the waterline is not an issue, google heavy lift ships with (ironically) container gantry cranes on deck on ocean going voyages. Also, container vessels have already been designed this way , again, google Bell Pioneer and Europower, back in the last century.

[John De Bree]

I see the main problem is that the container's are not secured with restraints that suit the conditions that they could encounter. It's better to stop the problem before it becomes a problem.

[scfoster]

Originally Posted by ameehan

Methinks you are mistaken,
Weight above the waterline is not an issue, google heavy lift ships with (ironically) container gantry cranes on deck on ocean going voyages. Also, container vessels have already been designed this way , again, google Bell Pioneer and Europower, back in the last century.

Not even sure how to respond. Worked on the Isle of Wight in the dynamic tow tanks facility. Believe me when I tell you I understand fluid dynamics in both marine and aviation applications, including the application of Froude scaling.

[Smokeys Kitchen]

Originally Posted by NevilleCat

A financial imposition for every lost container.
Sufficient that it forces the shipping companies to fix the problem.

+1

Pocketbook is the only language the shipping companies will ever understand.

Enforceable by the country of destination. No payment for the lost containers - no unloading the boat. I like the idea - but most likely a pipe dream ....

[GoingWalkabout]

Originally Posted by EXTangen

Maybe the UN can impose some intelligent regulations?

Like having all containers made to have holes drilled in them. Simple and effective. Four large holes in the bottom and some type of low cost air release valve in the side will see that they become a quick new deposit to Davey Jones locker.