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21-01-2021, 18:51
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: Jeanneau 41 DS
Posts: 559
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
This is nothing new.....if you look it up the volume of containers lost it has been in the the thousands yearly for decades. Given the there are 5-6 of million containers crossing on any given day and hundreds millions a year I am surprised the numbers aren't greater.
That said, it does present a hazard if these things don't sink. If you put a gps tracking device...who is going to enforce it? You think China is going to go out its way to pick up their sh*t? Unless the whole world unites...it wont happen and with the new administration in the US I doubt anything will happen.
IMHO
Abe
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21-01-2021, 19:44
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,768
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by DomPerignon
Then where are we gone have our USA crap made ?
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"We" are going to have to sober up and go to work and make our own crap.
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21-01-2021, 19:58
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#19
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Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Channel Islands, CA
Boat: 1962 Columbia 29 MK 1 #37
Posts: 14,305
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reefmagnet
I cannot see any barriers as to why containers should not be fitted with hydrostatic low power AIS transmitters that would activate after being immersed for a few hours or even days. Cost to implement wouldn't be that great as a proportion of total container manufacturing cost.
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Yeah that was my idea a while back! But I doubt the shipping companies have any financial incentive to do so.
__________________
DL
Pythagoras
1962 Columbia 29 MKI #37
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21-01-2021, 20:02
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#20
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,065
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manateeman
It’s just a simple formula. Total number of containers lost includes some that sink but let’s assume they all float. Now you divide the total number of square miles of ocean by the total number of containers ...assuming they all float you still need to subtract the number of square miles of ocean which freeze and then take that number and subtract the route surface sea area of all steel ships because they
will sink most containers they hit. Then you need to subtract the number of containers sunk by warships, space junk or North Korea rockets. We can disregard containers captured in fishing trawls as currently this is zero. After several hot rums and ciders, my manatee crew passed out on top of my computer and the results were lost. Overboard.
Happy trails to you.
Mark
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In aviation that is known as the Big Sky theory; its a big sky, what are your odds of a collision? But even one mid-air collision will ruin your day. Same same for your boat and crew.
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22-01-2021, 00:32
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Boat: Island Packet 40
Posts: 6,433
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Banning styrofoam packing would be a good start.
__________________
Satiriker ist verboten, la conformité est obligatoire
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22-01-2021, 01:04
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#22
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 49
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Shipping costs are up 20% because there are not enough containers
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22-01-2021, 01:59
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2008
Location: puɐןsuǝǝnb 'ʎɐʞɔɐɯ
Boat: Nantucket Island 33
Posts: 4,864
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by parachute
Shipping costs are up 20% because there are not enough containers
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Yeah, 'cause half fall overboard
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22-01-2021, 05:08
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#24
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Slidell, La.
Boat: Morgan Classic 33
Posts: 2,845
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat37
https://www.wsj.com/articles/maersk-...=hp_lista_pos5
It's out of control. If nothing else, read the last 2 paragraphs of the article, which read:
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Maritime insurance executives said roughly 3,000 containers have been lost at sea over the past two months.
The World Shipping Council, a Washington-based trade body representing liner companies, said in a report last July that between 2008 and 2019 on average 1,382 containers were lost at sea each year.
----------------------------------------
... which is 1382 X 12 years = 16,584.
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Just for grins, and roughly speaking...
Say 2000 lost a year;
Container footprint 8' x 40' = 320 ft sq x 2000 = 640,000 sq ft total divided by 44000 (acre sq footage) = 15 acres
89,600,000,000 acres (size of oceans) divided by 15 = 5,973,333,333.33
So chances are almost 6 billion to one against you encountering one.
Have you considered knitting?
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22-01-2021, 05:32
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#25
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 1,016
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbunyard
Just for grins, and roughly speaking...
Say 2000 lost a year;
Container footprint 8' x 40' = 320 ft sq x 2000 = 640,000 sq ft total divided by 44000 (acre sq footage) = 15 acres
89,600,000,000 acres (size of oceans) divided by 15 = 5,973,333,333.33
So chances are almost 6 billion to one against you encountering one.
Have you considered knitting?
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I think that's actually something like the probability of encountering a container within any given randomly-selected acre, assuming the containers are distributed randomly.
An acre is 43,560 feet squared. 43,560 feet is 7.17nm. So every time you sail 7.17nm you enter a 'new acre' and thus compound the probability.
Disclaimer: the above is very likely mostly probably maybe definitely nonsense. But I think the principle holds true....... :-)
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22-01-2021, 05:36
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#26
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Bermuda
Boat: Heritage West Indies 36
Posts: 1,016
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Expanding on the above; a circumnavigation might be in the region of about, say, 30,000nm (including meandering). That brings the probability of encountering a container down to one in 4,184. Or is it just the probability of being within the same acre as a container?........ I'm not sure. OK, I'll get back to doing something productive now.
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22-01-2021, 05:46
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#27
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 2,768
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by EarlWer
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Your sources are just as "made up" as I did. Others sources as to number of lost containers seem more valid since the 3000+- lost in last 2 months are 4 times more per year than yours. Plus MOL comfort-according to your source -lost over 5500 containers when it sank -- so that ship alone accounted for lol YERSA of your "average" claim-- which means that for your 500+ @ year no other ships would have lost a single container for 10 YEARS! LOLOLOL You seem to believe the shipping industy when they are the culprits - like having criminals prosecute themselves. LOLOL
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22-01-2021, 09:38
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: League City, TX
Boat: Contessa 32
Posts: 305
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by geoleo
90+% of all the lost containers are loaded with Chnia crap and are headed to the USA. Ban China crap and 90+%v of container lost at sea reduction.
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AMEN to that!!!
Also a lot of those are one way uses.
When you buy one, you have to be careful what was hauled. I understand some nasty stuff can be hauled.
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22-01-2021, 09:43
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 24
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
IMHO people are looking at this problem from the wrong end of the telescope. Merchant vessels pay dues on gross tonnage ( a volumetric measurement), the volume of the enclosed cargo spaces . If the rules were changed to make it uneconomic to carry containers as deck cargo and to carry them securely in enclosed cargo spaces the problem would disappear overnight.
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22-01-2021, 09:48
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#30
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2015
Boat: Land bound, previously Morgan 462
Posts: 1,991
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Re: Container ship dumps containers in Pacific
Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverRat37
Not if the contents are lighter than water*. Those things floating about loose are a heck of danger to we small boaters. And them that sink with toxins aboard are sure to pollute and often in very, very, very deep waters where we have no idea of the results -- but it's safe to assume we will eventually pay the price and then wonder "what in the world we're they thinking?!"
* Consider contents that are wrapped well in the ubiquitous plastic bags (holding a surplus of air) which seems to be practically everything.
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The point about pollution is a valid one, and despite claims to the contrary, it was not mentioned in a previous post. Thanks!
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