Container Ship and Saliboats

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I'm not familiar with your Bay - are there special local rules? I imagine most tugs follow the traffic lanes, so have the "privileges" that affords. No ball-diamond-ball on the tug in your pic, so he's just a power-driven vessel as far as the rules see him - he should act accordingly.

Actually he is showing the proper required diamond shape for tows over 200 meters in length high on the masthead hard to see but it is there

[captain58sailin]

There are some who would insist on the stand on position no matter what.

[tbeargladd]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Where rules 13, 15 or 18 would require it, yes, you are required to maintain your course and speed.



Out of curiosity, what are your professional qualifications, and what type of ships have you "driven" in what capacity? And what to you sail for fun?

Mr. Lodesman, those rules were done in regards to sailing boats/yachts not Mega ships bearing down on you. The rules also state that you are to avoid any and all possible accidents the may or could occur! Sailing in the path of ship of less than yards/feet away from you do not apply, and I state do not give you right of way! Move out of the way of a ship bearing down on you! That is as simple as it can be! Let your ego go!

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by tbeargladd

That should not happen when you have full crew @ watch @ zero dark thirty if it does the crew is asleep! Single handing, maybe, full crew, no way! Also that type of boat (racing boat) should have alarms setup to notify you of a collision about to occur! make your course adjustment sooner than as needed! Come on dude! Let's be real about this! Their is no reason for the type of scenario you just suggested!

....and there is no reason to address a poster with a "dudettes" first name as a "dude!"

[jtsailjt]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

Don't have all the details, but this sounds like a potential tragedy that could have been avoided if everyone followed the rules. Generally in open ocean a tug and tow have to keep out of the way of a sailboat. If you had stood on and he made the sensible alteration to pass astern of you, there would have been no way for you to cut between him and his tow - everybody's happy; no death for you, less paperwork for him.

You may be right but I put most of the blame on myself for allowing my fatigue to distract me for noticing something that was clearly right there for me to see if I'd been more diligent, and i was thankful that he warned me in time. We were about halfway between the northernmost Berry Islands and the southernmost part of Abaco, him headed northwest and me headed north-northeast so there was plenty of sea room with nobody else around so neither of us was restricted by a channel, though I can understand how it must be very difficult for a large tug towing a barge to slow or turn enough to avoid a collision with a 6 knot sailboat in the time he had from when he first could determine that a danger of collision with me existed on his radar. This was 18 years ago so no AIS.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

We were about halfway between the northernmost Berry Islands and the southernmost part of Abaco.

Y'know I just passed that area last month going Nassau to Freeport - lot of big ship cross traffic. As I recall we had 3, maybe 4 where risk of collision or very close CPA existed. I stood on, watched their bearings closely and they all changed their courses a bit and kept clear. Go figure.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actually he is showing the proper required diamond shape for tows over 200 meters in length high on the masthead hard to see but it is there

The point is that the tug is not RAM, so has no rule 18 privilege over a sailboat or any other PDV.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by tbeargladd

Mr. Lodesman, those rules were done in regards to sailing boats/yachts not Mega ships bearing down on you. The rules also state that you are to avoid any and all possible accidents the may or could occur! Sailing in the path of ship of less than yards/feet away from you do not apply, and I state do not give you right of way! Move out of the way of a ship bearing down on you! That is as simple as it can be! Let your ego go!

I weary of anonymous trolls with a few posts to their credit, who wade into the deep end of a Rules discussion and start spouting off about egos. From the tortured grammar, it is very difficult to decipher what is your actual message, but it is apparent that you don't know a lot about the colregs. If it is truly of interest to you, and you wish to enter into respectful correspondence on this subject, within this forum, then you can expect to learn a great deal.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

The point is that the tug is not RAM, so has no rule 18 privilege over a sailboat or any other PDV.

Actually you stated that the tug didn't appear to be showing proper diamond shape therefore is just a power vessel and should act accordingly
Here is exactly what you said and quote
No ball-diamond-ball on the tug in your pic, so he's just a power-driven vessel as far as the rules see him - he should act accordingly.
When the diamond as infact on the tugs masthead
Also leaving a port in a TSS so yes that does afford some additional rules
Colregs chapter ten j reads :
(j) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.

[tbeargladd]

Originally Posted by jtsailjt

....and there is no reason to address a poster with a "dudettes" first name as a "dude!"

I did not address him as dude! Only in my final comment, as dude that he did not make any sense to the scenario that he suggested! Common sense does not add up to his scenario. it's night, a full crew and no ones paying any attention a ship coming at you! Doe's not add up or make any sense!

[tbeargladd]

I truly am learning a great deal. Colregs are a good bases for being aware but bring harm to one self or others does not do well in my mind and heart. Being on the caution of others who may or may not be paying attention frustrates me. Reading some of these forums is un-believable that rules are the only way you sail! Caution is my main rule. Be aware, anticipate the scenario that is occurring in front of your eyes, make adjustment as needed be! The other person may not know what you know or does not consider that it does not apply to them!

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by tbeargladd

The other person may not know what you know or does not consider that it does not apply to them!

If everyone just did whatever the heck they wanted, it'd be anarchy. That's why they created the rules - so there would be order, and predictability. If everyone does as the rules say, there will be no collisions. If someone doesn't do as the rules say, the rules give you guidance on how to deal with that.

[tbeargladd]

When I state "Let your ego go" it is not to you personally! It is to the person who is at the helm thinking that they should stand ground when their is potential danger facing them! One should always steer clear of potential danger and their are a lot and I do mean a lot of helms men/women who stand strong as to being at charge and I will not do what's needed to keep them selves safe! People think that way!
I once had a scenario where I was motoring south and another sail boat bearing down on me motoring north. I thought I was correct and held my position until I could see that the other sail boat would not make a course change. So I made the decision to make the course change. Once I pass the other boat in question, I saw why the other boat did not make a course change. That was because the wife was at the helm while the husband was down below. The helm was lock on auto steer while the wife sat in the cockpit not knowing what to do, did not yell to the husband to come up to the cockpit to see what was happening! So with caution I did what was right not what the rules suggested stand my ground but to avoid any incident that would or could have occur! Caution! Is always in my mind and my heart! Do you understand now what I mean?

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by newhaul

Actually you stated that the tug didn't appear to be showing proper diamond shape therefore is just a power vessel and should act accordingly
Here is exactly what you said and quote
No ball-diamond-ball on the tug in your pic, so he's just a power-driven vessel as far as the rules see him - he should act accordingly.
When the diamond as infact on the tugs masthead
Also leaving a port in a TSS so yes that does afford some additional rules
Colregs chapter ten j reads :
(j) A vessel of less than 20 meters in length or a sailing vessel shall not impede the safe passage of a power-driven vessel following a traffic lane.

You've obviously read what I wrote; you quoted what I wrote, but you clearly don't understand it. I didn't say the tug wasn't displaying a diamond; I said he wasn't showing ball-diamond-ball - a very specific signal that would indicate that he is restricted in his ability to manoeuvre (RAM). The chunk you took from rule 10 has no bearing on what I was saying - that a towing vessel that is not RAM, is no different than a power-driven vessel as far as the Steering and Sailing rules apply.

[tbeargladd]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

If everyone just did whatever the heck they wanted, it'd be anarchy. That's why they created the rules - so there would be order, and predictability. If everyone does as the rules say, there will be no collisions. If someone doesn't do as the rules say, the rules give you guidance on how to deal with that.

Very true, everyone just did whatever the heck they wanted, it'd be anarchy. A lot of people do just that! They take charge that I am right and you have to look out for me! Attitude! That is what I am saying! Danger does not apply to them! One must avoid danger! Rules are the bases of how we should conduct ourselves but to some people that does not apply! I am not one of them! I first and main rule is caution!