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Old 16-05-2024, 17:10   #31
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
You just described my current boat, minus the free standing mast bit.
Good on-ya Mike, and my reference to free standing mast.... was maybe a bit far fetched, but if (and I wrote "if") it makes sailing or sail handling easier, why not?

eh how do I use mulitple quotes in boxes? I used copy/paste here.

--------
Originally Posted by HankOnthewater
Am I an outlier with these kind of thoughts?
Gilow
"No, but I suspect you are suffering from owning a French boat. I suffered a similar affliction while owning a French car".

Yes, that might be true, hehehe, some French make good boats, and some French made good nice cars.


Old man Mirage: Yes, you could be right, those who have the money can have boats with all the luxuries. Those without much money, just have simple boats.

Rslifkin: You said it, and others (like Wotname) as well, and I agree: only install that equipment you can repair or troubleshoot yourself. However, many things are not really repairable, like most electronics. It becomes a matter of replacing.

DiJ: thank you for your list of items. Yes you are right: HF radio is maybe the only item people remove from their boat. Hmmm, still got mine, with modem and stuff.

Barnakiel: you are right, when we are spending reading and writing on CF, that is time lost to sailing, ..... or lost to maintenance. Maybe we view this social media activiteis as distractions, and most people need that I would say, let me check.... yes, Dr Google says "yes" https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/b...-is-good-thing
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Old 16-05-2024, 17:19   #32
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

The next item for a simple sailing boat would be a tiller instead of wheel steering.

I enjoyed seeing the double tiller setup Cole Brauer had on the Class 40 sailboat she sailed Round the World non-stop.

Tiller steering is so much easier to maintain than a wheel, and the autopilots are much cheaper.

Plus, sheet to tiller steering can easily be setup if needed

Folks continue to forget about just how simple and effective tiller steering can be.
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Old 16-05-2024, 17:20   #33
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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I hear you. It's one reason all my cruising boats were old school with engine battery charging. But I was not in the super simple camp. Just didn't want all that crap hanging off the boat. Today I would probably have some solar on a bimini top as well as the big alternator, but no tall structure. Everything is a compromise on a boat.
Like you said and many others, everything is compromise, a tradeoff.

I often question "Why?". Even if a solution and path is obvious, I still check the other pathways, other less obvious solutions. Most of the time it strengthens the decision to go with the first obvious solution, but there are times that a new direction might be better (for me).
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Old 16-05-2024, 17:24   #34
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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Originally Posted by thomm225 View Post
The next item for a simple sailing boat would be a tiller instead of wheel steering.

Tiller steering is so much easier to maintain than a wheel, and the autopilots are much cheaper.

Plus, sheet to tiller steering can easily be setup.

Folks continue to forget about just how simple and effective tiller steering can be.
Funny that, I did not include tiller steering on my initial post, but... you are right, however on bigger boat tiller steering becomes physically harder, or only possible when a balanced spade rudder is used? I can not think of any boat 50 ft plus or 20 tonnes plus with tiller steering. Must be for good reason, but on smaller boats: yes please.
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Old 16-05-2024, 17:50   #35
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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Originally Posted by HankOnthewater View Post
Funny that, I did not include tiller steering on my initial post, but... you are right, however on bigger boat tiller steering becomes physically harder, or only possible when a balanced spade rudder is used? I can not think of any boat 50 ft plus or 20 tonnes plus with tiller steering. Must be for good reason, but on smaller boats: yes please.
When I think simplicity of sailing, I think of boats quite a bit under 50'.

Others though that think buying a 50' sailboat and making it simple to sail are probably out there, but it seems a strange combination.

I mean many boats that size have bow thrusters, etc.
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Old 16-05-2024, 18:01   #36
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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Originally Posted by HankOnthewater View Post
Funny that, I did not include tiller steering on my initial post, but... you are right, however on bigger boat tiller steering becomes physically harder, or only possible when a balanced spade rudder is used? I can not think of any boat 50 ft plus or 20 tonnes plus with tiller steering. Must be for good reason, but on smaller boats: yes please.
My boat is tiller-driven. It's 37-feet long, and 15 tons. I was concerned that it would be physically challenging when we first looked at the boat. But this was quickly dispelled. It is well-balanced, and easy to manage.

I love the simplicity of the tiller and transom-hung rudder. Any problem (not that there has been one) is easily visible, as would be the solution. It's as simple as it gets.
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Old 16-05-2024, 18:10   #37
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

It's the sign of the times.

I took off to see the world in a boat I built myself. This was back in day, when a lot of people were building their own boat as it was the only way we could afford to have one.

As I had little money to spare, the boat was bare bones.
No refrigeration....icebox.
No solar panels
Dink with oars, later upgraded with a 2 hp kicker.
My only " electronics" was a vhf radio and Ham radio.
Sails were still hanked on.
Etc, etc, etc
In those days, if I had $2 in my pocket, I felt rich.

Interestingly, most other cruisers I met along the way were similarly " bare bones" and similarly broke. We just made do as best we could had and had a blast doing it.

I never considered with having so little and was my home for many a year. Mind you I was in my 20's. Young and fearless. To go adventuring and see new places was the goal.

I learned to deal with the weather whatever it might be.

Fast forward to today. It's hard to buy a boat that isn't equipped with a generator, solar panels, a/c. water maker, davits and a dink with 15 hp on the back and festooned with all manner of electronics.

Do I need or want all those things...no...but they are on the boat, so have learned to deal with all the maintenance, etc.

Think about the cars we drove 40 years ago. Most any amateur mechanic could work on them. Not so today as cars have become computerized to the hilt.

As I said, it's simply a sign of the times.
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Old 16-05-2024, 21:14   #38
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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I think it just boils down to money. If you have the money you will have the luxuries.

If you don't - you won't !

That's the simple truth.
Not true, at all. I and my sailing friends have varying levels of wealth and varying levels of luxuries. There is maybe a loose correlation at the extremes, but this is far from a truism.

It incorrect to assume that a person doesn't have luxuries on their boat because they cannot afford them.

Different people want different things from their sailing experiences, and they strive to get boats and gear that lend themselves to those experiences. That's a simple truth.
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Old 17-05-2024, 03:05   #39
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

Well sure, there's as many different levels of wants and needs as there are different ways to sail...where you sail, how you sail, what you're trying to do, race, cruise, daysail, etc., etc., ad nauseum.

But I was speaking in general with the interest of keeping the equation simple. I still feel by and large - for the vast majority of situations - people tend to have as simple or complex of a boat as they can afford.

If you don't have a lot of moola you will likely have a smaller simpler boat than the guy whose income is 10X what yours' is. Or even 2X.

I see it on here all the time.

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Old 17-05-2024, 03:29   #40
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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Not true, at all. I and my sailing friends have varying levels of wealth and varying levels of luxuries. There is maybe a loose correlation at the extremes, but this is far from a truism.

It incorrect to assume that a person doesn't have luxuries on their boat because they cannot afford them.

Different people want different things from their sailing experiences, and they strive to get boats and gear that lend themselves to those experiences. That's a simple truth.
People are so different when it comes to sailing / boating.

You have those that believe their boat must be almost perfect as in perfect paint, shined bright work, plus every gadget under the Sun.

Kinda like a guy with a new car.

I did that with my cars when I was a teenager, but now especially with my boat its more than enough for me to rinse of the salt water and mud after one of my short cruisers.

I sort of rough it on my boat then when I get back after a few days enjoy the air conditioning, fridge, queen size bed, shower/bath, and what ever food I want at my apartment or home.

On the boat, sometimes I sweat in 90 degree plus and don't take a cockpit bath until maybe 10 pm after things have started to cool down a bit.

After a day or two, food choice are something out of a can or fried potatoes and onions.

After 5 day, the beer is just a bit cooler that lukewarm.

And the boat is very simple.
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Old 17-05-2024, 04:05   #41
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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I still feel by and large - for the vast majority of situations - people tend to have as simple or complex of a boat as they can afford.
Then you don't know the wooden boat crowd! I used to live on Martha's Vineyard, where Gannon & Benjamin Shipyard is located. The harbor is full of old and new wooden boats, beautifully maintained, but often much simpler than the average boat here on CF. Some quite large vessels too, but hardly different than the classic vessels of the past they are based on with maybe the addition of a radar. GPS, and a radio. Go up to Maine and you'll see a lot more, and I know for a fact that some of these folks cruise far and wide too. Not saying that every wooden boat owner is rich, but just that some of them are and like it nice and simple. I would say there is correlation between wealth and levels of complexity, but not a strong one. For one thing, if you don't have the money you probably can't buy all the complexity. I think of a friend of mine, now gone, who inherited great wealth. He taught himself boatbuilding and design and then sailed his very simple boats back and forth across the Atlantic a bunch of times and down to South America and back. Think really, really simple--not only no electronics, but no electrical system!
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Old 17-05-2024, 04:31   #42
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

I've opined on this before.

"Back in day" as long as the wind blew, we got going. We'd look outside, and the weather was the weather. If it was real windy we'd reef down before going. We'd hope for optimum wind direction, but would know that wind direction and strength was an unknown quantity and likely to change daily.

Fast forward to today. It is not unusual for me to come across a group of sailors that have analyzed the weather down to the finest degree using every type of electronic gizmo. They are looking for the " perfect" weather window, which doesn't exist and will worry and fret about anything that may or may not happen twelve hours hence.
The end result is that they don't go anywhere and remain tied to the dock umbilical cord having another G&T.

Off course, back in my day, I didn't have insurance of any kind. Not so these days, where boat insurance policies control when and where you can move.

It's a different ball game, but you have a choice. You don't have to abide by any rules and can march to the beat of your own drummer or follow the herd and stay glommed to your dock with your G&T..
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Old 17-05-2024, 05:35   #43
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

Simple wooden cruising boat: https://classicboatshow.com/classifi...ai-ketch-1980/
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Old 17-05-2024, 06:43   #44
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Re: Considering simplicity on sailing boats

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I've opined on this before.

"Back in day" as long as the wind blew, we got going. We'd look outside, and the weather was the weather. If it was real windy we'd reef down before going. We'd hope for optimum wind direction, but would know that wind direction and strength was an unknown quantity and likely to change daily.

Fast forward to today. It is not unusual for me to come across a group of sailors that have analyzed the weather down to the finest degree using every type of electronic gizmo. They are looking for the " perfect" weather window, which doesn't exist and will worry and fret about anything that may or may not happen twelve hours hence.
The end result is that they don't go anywhere and remain tied to the dock umbilical cord having another G&T.

Off course, back in my day, I didn't have insurance of any kind. Not so these days, where boat insurance policies control when and where you can move.

It's a different ball game, but you have a choice. You don't have to abide by any rules and can march to the beat of your own drummer or follow the herd and stay glommed to your dock with your G&T..
Speaking of weather windows, I learned sailing on inland lakes in Tennessee and Mississippi.

Most folk wouldn't sail if the winds were say 15 knots and above.

You even hear folks on here sometimes saying they need to move to or visit the coast to learn sailing for real.

Actually, all you have to do is go to the lake when the winds are 20-25 knots or so. You'll have the place to yourself, but sometimes there are lots of obstacles to deal with which also makes you a better sailor especially if you are sailing engineless.

As far as insurance, many of us with old and simple boats only have the required marina liability insurance so we sail when and where we want.
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Old 17-05-2024, 07:02   #45
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