Colregs Etiquette

[Naughty Cat]

I wondered what the right etiquette is for a situation i found myself in today?

TWS 6-7knts, I was under main and spinnaker only at about 140 TWA (90AWA). A (lovely - S&S I think) monohull was approaching from port under main, genoa and engine. Probably at about 100 TWA. I was the windward boat, both on starboard tack. It became clear that we were going to collide.

My understanding of the colregs is that they should have eased off the engine or luffed up to pass behind. They did neither and at about 2-3 boat lengths I took matters into my own hands and luffed up, collapsing the spinnaker and they past across our bow close enough to speak.

Now the etiquette question. They waved cheerily at me as they passed and we wrestled with the spinnaker. What is the correct response on my part?

[sandy stone]

Are you sure the engine was in gear?

[dfelsent]

First question: were they in gear and under power or just running the engine in neutral?
That would change the stand on vessel.
Either way you did the right thing.
As far as etiquette if you see them ashore approach and say hello and explain the issue. Otherwise it is a no win situation.
I’d be annoyed with them for sure. Even if they were not in gear, and then the stand on vessel, they should have given you a break.

[PippaB]

The correct response would have been to sound 5 on the whistle to indicate your doubt as to their intentions.

But, if they weren't flying a day shape to indicate that they were motoring then you'd be hard pressed to prove your stand-on status.

[rslifkin]

As far as I'm concerned, engine running qualifies as under power. It doesn't matter if it's already in gear. It's running, so it's available for immediate use in maneuvering.

[ranger58sb]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

As far as I'm concerned, engine running qualifies as under power. It doesn't matter if it's already in gear. It's running, so it's available for immediate use in maneuvering.

Rules 3b and 3c seem to disagree with that.

-Chris

[ItDepends]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

As far as I'm concerned, engine running qualifies as under power. It doesn't matter if it's already in gear. It's running, so it's available for immediate use in maneuvering.

It’s a conservative interpretation of the rules it it’s YOUR engine, but a bad idea if you apply the rule that way to the other guy. If the engine is running, but not in gear it is not being “used” which is what the rules say.

You can not really make that decision yourself, even if you see water coming out an exhaust port, they might be running a generator. You have to assume they are under sail alone, because that is the most conservative decision. Even if you feel violated.

[Knotical]

Originally Posted by PippaB

The correct response would have been to sound 5 on the whistle to indicate your doubt as to their intentions.

But, if they weren't flying a day shape to indicate that they were motoring then you'd be hard pressed to prove your stand-on status.

I would have done the above, it would have helped to resolve the situation a lot sooner than 2-3 boat lengths when you have to scramble to avoid a collision. If you were the windward boat a few degrees turn to port some time before would have been easier.

[leecea]

You have to play by the rules not your own version of the rules.

[Spurs]

Even if their engine was not in gear, it is common courtesy to give way to someone who is using a spinnaker, if it can be done easily and in a clear manner. I find using the international hand sign for dislike quite acceptable in this case

[Jammer]

Originally Posted by Naughty Cat

at about 2-3 boat lengths I took matters into my own hands and luffed up, collapsing the spinnaker and they past across our bow close enough to speak.

Next time, do something much sooner. I would have called on the VHF, noted that they are closing under power, and asked what their intentions are. In the absence of any sort of response then 5 short. Still nothing then, well, not much choice but to luff up.

Now the etiquette question. They waved cheerily at me as they passed and we wrestled with the spinnaker. What is the correct response on my part?

Wave back cheerily. No point in a lecture, it will adversely affect your inner peace and is highly unlikely to change their future behavior.

Originally Posted by rslifkin

As far as I'm concerned, engine running qualifies as under power. It doesn't matter if it's already in gear. It's running, so it's available for immediate use in maneuvering.

Most authorities disagree with you. I don't know whether there's any case law. "The propulsion machinery is not in use" whenever it isn't providing any propulsion.

[Naughty Cat]

Pretty sure engine was engaged as they were slightly outpacing us. We are a Catana 47 Carbon flying a main and asymmetric, they were around a 37' mono with short waterline and two white sails at probably around 50 degrees apparent. In 6-7 knots we were doing around 6 sog. I cannot see how they could get that sort of pace without assistance. Also, we are in the Med where 'sailing' is pretty rare.

[requiem]

With both sails drawing and no motoring cone, I would agree that the conservative interpretation is that they are sailing. Sherlockian deduction can be useful, but for these decisions it's usually a sign of thinking too hard.

I would also take action earlier, whether to call them or change course. Ideally your threshold for changing course is based on how much time you need to do so in a safe and controlled manner, rather than simply putting the wheel over at the last minute.

As to the question of whether they were motoring, sure, seems likely. But that's a different question.

[Pete7]

Originally Posted by Jammer

Wave back cheerily. No point in a lecture, it will adversely affect your inner peace and is highly unlikely to change their future behavior.

Indeed. You would hope that they have some basic understanding of the IRPCS but that may not be the case. We certainly treat small motorboats and cruisers with caution.

Pete

[Naughty Cat]

It was one of those situations where you think you know the colregs until a situation arises - they were approaching from port - does that not make me the stand on if we are both under sail, slightly from astern- again that makes me stand on if both sailing, clearly with motor on (it won't have been a generator) and probably motoring which still makes me the stand on vessel, and with clear visibility of each other ( it's not uncommon in the medi for no one to be keeping watch).

I wasn't particularly concerned - there wasn't much wind and the asymmetric is fairly forgiving - and I never assume the rules were going to be applied. I am in Italy after all. The thing that really surprised me was the cheery wave.

In hindsight maybe it was just an acknowledgement of the fact we had given ground.

The etiquette question really stems from the fact that I never gesture at other boat users however I feel. But I wondered whether there is ever a situation when it could be justified!