Colregs Etiquette

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Knotical

Wow, just wow, in your quest for a self-centered tirade you actually wish harm on a fellow boater, I hope I never see you in my local waters.

I wouldn't worry, I get the feeling that it is more bravado/wishful thinking than anything else.

Or perhaps I should have said BS and been done with it.

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

I wouldn't worry, I get the feeling that it is more bravado/wishful thinking than anything else.

Or perhaps I should have said BS and been done with it.

Three choices:


Your two or stupidity, both in deed and writing boastfully about it.


All three s*ck.

[Simi 60]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

That's what sailing is. And why regulations grant them the right of way.

What rule (colregs or etiquette) dictates that powerboats at speed are entitled to clear straight tracks regardless of actual traffic and its makeup?

There's this wheel on most powerboats, that if one turns it a little bit this way or that, the boat changes course by a corresponding amount this way or that. It's amazing.

And yachts have the same mechanism with the same if not better response.
Our vessel as an example, has the manouverability of a house brick whereas a previous sailing vessel could sail circles seemingly in its own length

Yes some sailors can be dicks. (and some motoring sailboats have been real dicks to us). But thinking one is entitled to speed close to sailboats and the sailboats have to yield is ... what? prudent?

Like you, I avoid overtrafficked areas; it's just a messy combo of ignorance and ego

.

I never said it was prudent for powered vessels to speed close to sailboats
And it's also not prudent for sailboats to go out of their way to get in the way of powered vessels like entitled dicks
Yet do it they do

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

That's what sailing is. And why regulations grant them the right of way.. . .

I'm now going to sound like a pedantic broken record, but it's important:


There is no "right of way" in the Colregs, and thinking of it as "right of way" is extremely harmful to understanding how the Rules work. You will not do it right, thinking about it like this.



Sailing vessel under certain circumstances maneuvers second, that's all. And has an OBLIGATION (NOT indeed any kind of "right" or "privilege") to hold course and speed while the give-way vessel gets his chance to solve the situation. Failing which, the stand-on vessel has its turn.


There are no rights of any kind, far less any kind of "right of way"


[/pedanticbrokenrecord]

[boatpoker]

Originally Posted by PippaB

The correct response would have been to sound 5 on the whistle to indicate your doubt as to their intentions.

But, if they weren't flying a day shape to indicate that they were motoring then you'd be hard pressed to prove your stand-on status.

24,000 hrs in my log and have only ever seen one sailboat flying a day shape (2006 in Cape May).
My bet is 99.999% of sailboats don't even have one.

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

500 m is a bit more than "right in front of their bow".

All I am saying is that powerboats at speed should maybe not be on a course that takes them so close to sailboats. When there's the whole rest of a Great Lake (or a gulf, or an ocean or whatever) to drive on.

But if a powerboat still needs to do that, yes crossing behind a sailboat is a bit kinder, if anyone cares.

I don't understand people on this forum. When we talk about interactions with large vessels, the hive-mind says "don't follow the rules, just stay out of the way."
But if it's a recreational power vessel, the confirmation-bias brigade have decided it's perfectly okay to cut across their bows in such a way as to force them to change course.

Do you honestly not understand how the Colregs work? 500m in not "under the bow", but it is close enough, regardless of speed, as to be within the regime where you should be following Rule 17 - the stand on rule. A vessel at 20 kts, which is not particularly fast, will cover that distance in 45 seconds.

I agree that powerboats at speed, should allow for a safe and reasonable passing distance with all other vessels - and there are a fair number of numbskulls that don't. But if there's a whole Great Lake, gulf or ocean to play in, I don't buy the argument that the sailboat "needs" to tack close in front of another vessel.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I don't understand people on this forum. When we talk about interactions with large vessels, the hive-mind says "don't follow the rules, just stay out of the way."

But if it's a recreational power vessel, the confirmation-bias brigade have decided it's perfectly okay to cut across their bows in such a way as to force them to change course.



Do you honestly not understand how the Colregs work? 500m in not "under the bow", but it is close enough, regardless of speed, as to be within the regime where you should be following Rule 17 - the stand on rule. A vessel at 20 kts, which is not particularly fast, will cover that distance in 45 seconds.



I agree that powerboats at speed, should allow for a safe and reasonable passing distance with all other vessels - and there are a fair number of numbskulls that don't. But if there's a whole Great Lake, gulf or ocean to play in, I don't buy the argument that the sailboat "needs" to tack close in front of another vessel.

When a powerboat and a boat under sail meet there is no give way or stand on situation.

The only rule is powerboats stay out of the way of sailing Boats

Running at speed ,you are being a dick closing on a sailing boat

[bensolomon]

Originally Posted by paralog

1. who the heck remembers that.



2. who the heck flys a day shape indicating the are motoring.



It's 2022 not 1722.



In those situations it's always better to back off and let the other person through rather than try and argue the above later.

I always fly a steaming cone if motor sailing. It's the tradition that makes sailing special.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'm now going to sound like a pedantic broken record, but it's important:

There is no "right of way" in the Colregs, and thinking of it as "right of way" is extremely harmful to understanding how the Rules work. You will not do it right, thinking about it like this.

You are of course correct. After writing that and too late to edit, I expected this. "Right of way" was a lazy shorthand, but you're right that it leads to wrong assumptions.

[rslifkin]

I'll be the first to say that fast powerboats seem to avoid passing any further away than absolutely necessary. I can't count how many times I've had someone fly up my butt on autopilot, pass 200 feet away and wake the crap out of me. Both while I'm running slow or on plane. And they do this with miles of clear water to either side of me and no other boats in sight...

It drives me crazy how many of my fellow powerboaters just can't be bothered to learn how to be considerate.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

When a powerboat and a boat under sail meet there is no give way or stand on situation.
The only rule is powerboats stay out of the way of sailing Boats

"Keep (not stay) out of the way of" IS the "give way situation" and if you are the vessel that is to be "kept out of the way of", you ARE the stand on. vessel

Please read COLREGs. Either you have never read it, or you didn't understand what it says.

Here for your edification are the relevant sections:
Rule 16
Action by give-way vessel
. Every vessel which is directed to keep out of the way of another vessel...
Rule 17
Action by stand-on vessel
(a).(i). Where one of two vessels is to keep out of the way the other shall keep her course and speed.


And 18 (a) is quite clear:
A power-driven vessel underway shall keep out of the way of:
...
(iv). a sailing vessel

[Lodesman]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

When a powerboat and a boat under sail meet there is no give way or stand on situation.

The only rule is powerboats stay out of the way of sailing Boats

It's better to stay quiet and be thought a fool, than to post something like this, and remove all doubt.

I posted the relevant parts of the Rules - 17 and 18. I suggest you go back and read them, then perhaps put some effort into understanding the other Colregs.
Such as rules 9, 10 or 13 which might also nullify rule 18.

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by Lodesman

I don't understand people on this forum. When we talk about interactions with large vessels, the hive-mind says "don't follow the rules, just stay out of the way."

But if it's a recreational power vessel, the confirmation-bias brigade have decided it's perfectly okay to cut across their bows in such a way as to force them to change course.

When there's a close pass, colregs provides guidance. We've all agreed that a sailboat deliberately forcing an oncoming powerboat off course is a d1ck move.

Do you honestly not understand how the Colregs work? 500m in not "under the bow", but it is close enough, regardless of speed, as to be within the regime where you should be following Rule 17 - the stand on rule. A vessel at 20 kts, which is not particularly fast, will cover that distance in 45 seconds.

I agree that powerboats at speed, should allow for a safe and reasonable passing distance with all other vessels - and there are a fair number of numbskulls that don't. But if there's a whole Great Lake, gulf or ocean to play in, I don't buy the argument that the sailboat "needs" to tack close in front of another vessel.

My understanding is imperfect, as I've been reminded. But it's not really colregs we're arguing about, it's colregs-based etiquette. If a powerboat has chosen a course that puts it into a possible collision course with a sailboat (or a bunch of them) regardless of whether/when they tack, and this situation is already apparent from 500m or more, colregs says what it says, but courtesy suggests that a colregs-testing situation could have been avoided. Is it not a move of some d1ckishness for a speeding powerboat to be passing that close to a sailboat, period?

Our situations - what boats we own, where we operate - shape our opinions. I'm sure we all have different experiences. Mine is that a few lazy or indifferent powerboaters pass too close to sailboats, sometimes forcing the sailboat to yield. Not to mention getting bounced by the wake.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Lake-Effect

Is it not a move of some d1ckishness for a speeding powerboat to be passing that close to a sailboat, period?.

And if you are driving a motorboat in proximity to other vessels, sailing or not, at such a speed that you can't turn or stop quickly you have already contravened Rule 6


(Running at 40knots jumping waves I’m sure the sailboat missed the bright red boat with white strip grabbing air. At the last minute he cut in front of us. If we move to hard to port we die, if we chop the throttle we sink.)

Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.
In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:
(a) By all vessels:
(i) the state of visibility;
(ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;
(iii) the manoeuvrability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Rumrace

We still have a power boat. Just finished almost building it. It’s an 86 Donzi with a lovely 6.8l LS3 my Grandson and I donned matching red helmets and headed out from Humber bat where we dropped it in. We met wife and daughter out from port credit got them to give us a slow radar powered chase boat. ( shipping lane from Hamilton )
Running at 40knots jumping waves I’m sure the sailboat missed the bright red boat with white strip grabbing air. At the last minute he cut in front of us. If we move to hard to port we die, if we chop the throttle we sink. Anyone who knows the Donzi 18 knows I’m speaking the truth. Solution put the hammer down turn 2 degrees to port come spiting out of a wave sucking his stern under @ 65n. Get that thick rubber neck working.
Everything nice and legal like.
Ol thick neck can waddle back to his lawn chair clique and babble about rude boaters not giving clear way.
It’s fun keeps the whole nihilism thing meaningful

At those speeds, the burden (also according to the colregs) falls squarely on you to maintain the distance from other boats that will allow you to manuever without risking collisions.

Seriously - if you run at those speeds, you shouldn't never be getting close to anyone else and if you can't see that you sholdn't be driving a boat like that