Coast Guard Intervention information needed for a novel.

[Interested]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

The irony is startling!
That’s all you do here. Clearly, you don’t understand the terminology (among other things).

No I don't and yes I do. See how that works? I refuted unsupported assertions with unsupported assertions.

[Interested]

Seriously, if you want to argue against a point I legitimately made, I'd be happy to be proven wrong. If you want to do the internet version of yell at me about positions I do not take, what's the point? Take a little of your blood pressure medicine, pick out one point you claim/assume I support and I'll tell you if you are right about what I believe/support.


I think political correctness is one of the cancers eating away at our republic. Especially in the various services. If you tell me the Coast Guard is a straight up meritocracy, I offer a standing ovation to them. I will however, remain skeptical till I have much more evidence because I have to balance your anonymous report with countless other reports of service members, some of whom, I actually know in person.

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Interested

Where I come from they have both men and women.


Soooo, those who didn't serve are not allowed to have an opinion about the relative strength, quickness and speed of men vs women?



A simple search will confirm my first post was about another topic so...no. And you managed to include a straw man argument right next to a garden variety obvious falsehood.




See above.


Straw man argument.



Review my earlier posts.



Relevance?


Then I would applaud same albeit skeptically since other services are reported as doing quite differently on the subject.



Again, review my earlier posts. Again, straw man arguments on your part.




Same as answer above. You do understand straw man arguments are a form of lying?



Again, review carefully the language in my earlier posts. Again, you are employing a straw man argument.


Cute personal attack.


Again, straw man argument. Now if you are saying the Coast Guard is a meritocracy making no special concessions for any group, I will applaud them, if skeptically. May the rest of the services follow their lead.

Let's take a step back here. We're on a website called Cruiser Forum on a thread about how the Coast Guard would respond to a hypothetical situation. Several of us made a good faith and honest attempt to provide a helpful answer to the OPs question based on our personal experience. You on the other hand.....? What exactly have you contributed to this thread, or to this entire community for that matter? We were all new once, there's no such thing as a dumb on-topic question. But jumping in to troll with your own completely unrelated ax to grind, what do you hope to accomplish with that exactly?

If there's a "cancer eating away at our republic" it's the idea that the opinion of someone who knows some people that might have served in another service is as valid as the opinion of someone who eat, breathed, and bled Coast Guard for more than 20 years on something directly related to the Coast Guard. Not only that, but to have the gall to call the expert's opinion "silly and pretentious" and "playing make believe"! What's next, you're going to tell me that you talked to someone about flying helicopters so your opinion on that is as valid as mine with several thousand flight hours?

You are certainly allowed to have an opinion, unlike you I signed on a dotted line to defend your right to that. You certainly do not have a right have anyone do anything but ridicule that opinion when it's obviously misinformed and comes from a position of absolutely no knowledge. And on that subject, interesting that you should feel the need to say "I have to balance your anonymous report", something you would only say to question if I indeed served (Would you have made that comment if I'd agreed with you? We all know the answer to that). That's interesting because to falsely claim service is actually a crime, the Stolen Valor Act. And to falsely imply someone committed a crime is itself a crime, called libel when done in print. So let's do this. I'll private message you a copy of my retired ID card. You'll apologize for your comment and, since I'm no longer an "anonymous report" you can so conveniently ignore you'll make an honest effort to form your opinions based on actual information specific to the Coast Guard, rather than nebulous things you've read or heard about other services, and we'll call it good. Seems imminently reasonable to me, what do you say?

BTW, I'm not sure you understand how the whole straw man concept works. You're claiming one of two things here. You could certainly be making a simple factual observation on the relative body strengths of men vs women as populations with no other agenda then to point out that simple fact. If that's the case, we're in violent agreement. I'm baffled as to why you felt the need to point out something obvious and completely off topic, but no argument with the fact itself.

Or, you made the comment and all your subsequent comments to perpetuate your idea that women are serving in roles they should not in the Coast Guard specifically because they as a population aren't as strong or fast as men. Given that there's no discussion here if that isn't your angle then we have to presume it is, therefore a point by point refutation about how wrong you are specific to the Coast Guard is point on. It's only a straw man if you aren't making that claim, so which is it? Can't have it both ways my friend.

And while we're talking about obligations of proof, given your strongly held beliefs you certainly could cite dozens of cases of people getting hurt or bad things happening because the Coast Guard (not some other random service you "know people" in) put women in jobs they couldn't do? So where are they? Without that, you've got absolutely nothing, against a very detailed point by point description of why you're completely incorrect. That's not a straw man argument, that's destroying the random pontification of someone who's defaming the job done every day by thousands of women in the Coast Guard, an opinion that is based on absolutely nothing but sexism, pure and simple.

I'll make you another offer, one that someone as courageous as you will certainly be happy to take me up on. Step out from behind that keyboard and meet up with me at the closest Coast Guard facility to you. I'll introduce you to the women who work there, and you can tell them to their face what you think about them doing the jobs they're doing, and on what basis you've made that determination. If you're unwilling to take me up on either of my offers, no need for you to post further here. Your actions say everything that needs to be said.

[Marc1]

Aiaiai ... someone told me I was using a straw man argument inappropriately before ... mm ... must have been one of those irrelevant replies you instantly ignore.

So what happened to helping the OP with his writing? It has nothing to do with your bias, prejudice and misconception of reality. It is a work of fiction and must entertain the reader or he/she will not recommend the book and the OP will make no sales.

So what is more entertaining? What attract the reader most? A burly man hero or a clever woman? I suppose there is readers for both. What does the coast guard do in real life? Who cares!, make up a good interesting resolution to your situation.

How about the PC brigade joins the veterans brigade and the sitting on the fence brigade and we suggest something useful to the writer in question ...
Just saying.

[thomm225]

This what happens when too much power is applied in a hostage situation.

https://www.amazon.com/Tears-Dark-Wa.../dp/0718042395

[Interested]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

Let's take a step back here. We're on a website called Cruiser Forum on a thread about how the Coast Guard would respond to a hypothetical situation. Several of us made a good faith and honest attempt to provide a helpful answer to the OPs question based on our personal experience. You on the other hand.....? What exactly have you contributed to this thread, or to this entire community for that matter? We were all new once, there's no such thing as a dumb on-topic question. But jumping in to troll with your own completely unrelated ax to grind, what do you hope to accomplish with that exactly?

If there's a "cancer eating away at our republic" it's the idea that the opinion of someone who knows some people that might have served in another service is as valid as the opinion of someone who eat, breathed, and bled Coast Guard for more than 20 years on something directly related to the Coast Guard. Not only that, but to have the gall to call the expert's opinion "silly and pretentious" and "playing make believe"! What's next, you're going to tell me that you talked to someone about flying helicopters so your opinion on that is as valid as mine with several thousand flight hours?

You are certainly allowed to have an opinion, unlike you I signed on a dotted line to defend your right to that. You certainly do not have a right have anyone do anything but ridicule that opinion when it's obviously misinformed and comes from a position of absolutely no knowledge. And on that subject, interesting that you should feel the need to say "I have to balance your anonymous report", something you would only say to question if I indeed served (Would you have made that comment if I'd agreed with you? We all know the answer to that). That's interesting because to falsely claim service is actually a crime, the Stolen Valor Act. And to falsely imply someone committed a crime is itself a crime, called libel when done in print. So let's do this. I'll private message you a copy of my retired ID card. You'll apologize for your comment and, since I'm no longer an "anonymous report" you can so conveniently ignore you'll make an honest effort to form your opinions based on actual information specific to the Coast Guard, rather than nebulous things you've read or heard about other services, and we'll call it good. Seems imminently reasonable to me, what do you say?

BTW, I'm not sure you understand how the whole straw man concept works. You're claiming one of two things here. You could certainly be making a simple factual observation on the relative body strengths of men vs women as populations with no other agenda then to point out that simple fact. If that's the case, we're in violent agreement. I'm baffled as to why you felt the need to point out something obvious and completely off topic, but no argument with the fact itself.

Or, you made the comment and all your subsequent comments to perpetuate your idea that women are serving in roles they should not in the Coast Guard specifically because they as a population aren't as strong or fast as men. Given that there's no discussion here if that isn't your angle then we have to presume it is, therefore a point by point refutation about how wrong you are specific to the Coast Guard is point on. It's only a straw man if you aren't making that claim, so which is it? Can't have it both ways my friend.

And while we're talking about obligations of proof, given your strongly held beliefs you certainly could cite dozens of cases of people getting hurt or bad things happening because the Coast Guard (not some other random service you "know people" in) put women in jobs they couldn't do? So where are they? Without that, you've got absolutely nothing, against a very detailed point by point description of why you're completely incorrect. That's not a straw man argument, that's destroying the random pontification of someone who's defaming the job done every day by thousands of women in the Coast Guard, an opinion that is based on absolutely nothing but sexism, pure and simple.

I'll make you another offer, one that someone as courageous as you will certainly be happy to take me up on. Step out from behind that keyboard and meet up with me at the closest Coast Guard facility to you. I'll introduce you to the women who work there, and you can tell them to their face what you think about them doing the jobs they're doing, and on what basis you've made that determination. If you're unwilling to take me up on either of my offers, no need for you to post further here. Your actions say everything that needs to be said.

Certainly the thread had wandered but my comment was well within the points that had already been brought up. Then I defended myself from personal attacks and attacks attributing false things and things I never said. Kind of like this nose in the air attack by you. If you will pick out a particular point you think you disagree with me on, I'll answer. Your last paragraph is completely straw man. Please attack me for what I really said.

[Dan Mosby]

How many of you have had to drag 200+ pound bodies off a 9,000 foot mountain in Nuristan, Afghanistan? Anyone?

How many of you have had to run over a mile in full combat kit to clear a runway of obstacles?

How many of you had to run in full combat kit to assume a position on the flank of a Taliban position in the mountains to set up a support by fire position so your assaulters can move with supporting fires?

How many of you have been in charge of selecting men to do those tasks?

And yet you deride, mock, and insult me?

If women were "equal", then there would be NO SEPARATION IN SPORTS, but there is, because WOMEN CAN'T COMPETE WITH MEN. PERIOD.

If you idiots seriously think our little high school and college girls are worth a damn as a fighter, then you deserve to share their fate. A woman on a combat team of men does NOTHING but slow them down, divide the team, and LOWER STANDARDS because they can't keep up.

But none of you give a damn about any of the men these women are killing in combat, on the police force, or in the fire service. You are all cowards incapable of facing the truth, and it's disgusting that the ego of some incompetent female is more important than the high standards and lives of the men FORCED to serve all you idiots and die in combat as a result.

Would you hate me if I said children don't belong in combat? No? Then why do you lash out when I refuse to comply with slaughtering innocent men to appease the ego of some self serving female that wants to play soldier....until they get pregnant on deployment and leave the men in the trenches as usual.

You should be ashamed of yourselves, and embarassed for your ignorant derision and "white-knighting".

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Dan Mosby

How many of you have had to drag 200+ pound bodies off a 9,000 foot mountain in Nuristan, Afghanistan? Anyone?

How many of you have had to run over a mile in full combat kit to clear a runway of obstacles?

How many of you had to run in full combat kit to assume a position on the flank of a Taliban position in the mountains to set up a support by fire position so your assaulters can move with supporting fires?

How many of you have been in charge of selecting men to do those tasks?

And yet you deride, mock, and insult me?

If women were "equal", then there would be NO SEPARATION IN SPORTS, but there is, because WOMEN CAN'T COMPETE WITH MEN. PERIOD.

If you idiots seriously think our little high school and college girls are worth a damn as a fighter, then you deserve to share their fate. A woman on a combat team of men does NOTHING but slow them down, divide the team, and LOWER STANDARDS because they can't keep up.

But none of you give a damn about any of the men these women are killing in combat, on the police force, or in the fire service. You are all cowards incapable of facing the truth, and it's disgusting that the ego of some incompetent female is more important than the high standards and lives of the men FORCED to serve all you idiots and die in combat as a result.

Would you hate me if I said children don't belong in combat? No? Then why do you lash out when I refuse to comply with slaughtering innocent men to appease the ego of some self serving female that wants to play soldier....until they get pregnant on deployment and leave the men in the trenches as usual.

You should be ashamed of yourselves, and embarassed for your ignorant derision and "white-knighting".

Whoa there buddy. If this was a forum about land locked countries and a thread about infantry operations there then your points might very well be at least topical. And, since I haven't served in the infantry and I'll take you at your word that you have, I'd offer you the professional courtesy that you're most pointedly not offering me, and I would not profess to know more about what you did for 20 years than you do or tell you that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to how the Army or Army infantry operate.
But...this is a forum about boating and a thread about Coast Guard operations off Florida. Something you have no experience with (as you shared with me via private message) and something that your rants here have absolutely nothing to do with. If you have any actual experiences with public affairs in the Coast Guard, or women in the Coast Guard, or homosexuals in the Coast Guard, all things you've gone on rants about here on this thread, then feel free to share them. Otherwise, perhaps it's time to move on to the discussion forums about landlocked countries and infantry ops? And between your private message to me and these posts it sounds like you're bottling up some significant anger there. That's just not good for you on any level, might be worth having a professional try to help you with that.

[thomm225]

Originally Posted by Dan Mosby

How many of you have had to drag 200+ pound bodies off a 9,000 foot mountain in Nuristan, Afghanistan? Anyone?

How many of you have had to run over a mile in full combat kit to clear a runway of obstacles?

How many of you had to run in full combat kit to assume a position on the flank of a Taliban position in the mountains to set up a support by fire position so your assaulters can move with supporting fires?

How many of you have been in charge of selecting men to do those tasks?

And yet you deride, mock, and insult me?

If women were "equal", then there would be NO SEPARATION IN SPORTS, but there is, because WOMEN CAN'T COMPETE WITH MEN. PERIOD.

If you idiots seriously think our little high school and college girls are worth a damn as a fighter, then you deserve to share their fate. A woman on a combat team of men does NOTHING but slow them down, divide the team, and LOWER STANDARDS because they can't keep up.

But none of you give a damn about any of the men these women are killing in combat, on the police force, or in the fire service. You are all cowards incapable of facing the truth, and it's disgusting that the ego of some incompetent female is more important than the high standards and lives of the men FORCED to serve all you idiots and die in combat as a result.

Would you hate me if I said children don't belong in combat? No? Then why do you lash out when I refuse to comply with slaughtering innocent men to appease the ego of some self serving female that wants to play soldier....until they get pregnant on deployment and leave the men in the trenches as usual.

You should be ashamed of yourselves, and embarassed for your ignorant derision and "white-knighting".

There aren't many Taliban out at sea though. And no runway obstacles to clear.

Could the soldiers in their Combat Kits be as cool, calm, and clear on the radio as some of the Female Coast Guardsmen are during a rescue?

I doubt it.

How many soldiers in their combat kits can update the software or repair a basic hardware problem on one of your tanks, combat vehicles, heavy guns, or close air support aircraft

How many infantry soldiers could qualify to fly a fighter jet or other military aircraft

This is 2019; not 1819

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by Interested

Certainly the thread had wandered but my comment was well within the points that had already been brought up. Then I defended myself from personal attacks and attacks attributing false things and things I never said. Kind of like this nose in the air attack by you. If you will pick out a particular point you think you disagree with me on, I'll answer. Your last paragraph is completely straw man. Please attack me for what I really said.

So, sounds like option 1, you decided to come out of lurking to post a random fact about the relative body strength of 2 populations apropos of nothing. Great, doesn't make much sense but since no-one really disagrees with that fact perhaps we can go back to contributing to the thread and the forum?
Or it's option 2, you've got a problem with women serving in the Coast Guard but don't have the courage to actually talk to them or anyone who's actually served in the Coast Guard about it. If so then again, noted. We'll all give your opinions the attention they deserve.

[S/V Illusion]

Originally Posted by redneckrob

So, sounds like option 1, you decided to come out of lurking to post a random fact about the relative body strength of 2 populations apropos of nothing. Great, doesn't make much sense but since no-one really disagrees with that fact perhaps we can go back to contributing to the thread and the forum?
Or it's option 2, you've got a problem with women serving in the Coast Guard but don't have the courage to actually talk to them or anyone who's actually served in the Coast Guard about it. If so then again, noted. We'll all give your opinions the attention they deserve.

General rule applicable here is to stop feeding the troll and it will go away

[redneckrob]

Originally Posted by S/V Illusion

General rule applicable here is to stop feeding the troll and it will go away

You are entirely correct of course. I'll move back to answering questions about the scenario, thanks for the gentle reminder

[Pelican_38]

Wow, I go away for couple days and you guys go nuts!! Well, can I chip in?

For all of you who served - Thank you sisters and brothers!
For all of you who didn't - We appreciate your support, but we'd do it without the support!

For Dan Mosby - How's it going, Ranger? When I returned from my last trip to Iraq, I weighed 165 lbs and 6'1" - so not too many Operators wanted to count on me to carry a 200# fallen freedom-fighter. In fact, they'd probably be looking for you.

Now, when I'm conducting LLSO with a female or talking to a child - I sure wouldn't pick you to do it. In fact, if I had one of those high speed SOF Cultural Support Teams with language qualified females, that'd be my first, last, and only choice! They were phenomenal and irreplaceable!! SOF was better because we had them!

But leadership is like working on your boat - you have to know what all the tools do and pick the right tool for the job. You can get away with using a hammer as your only tool for a little while - but it catches up to you.

I bet the person with the original question is wondering how they un-subscribe from their own thread.

[Shrew]

Originally Posted by Dan Mosby

How many of you have had to drag 200+ pound bodies off a 9,000 foot mountain in Nuristan, Afghanistan? Anyone?

How many of you have had to run over a mile in full combat kit to clear a runway of obstacles?

How many of you had to run in full combat kit to assume a position on the flank of a Taliban position in the mountains to set up a support by fire position so your assaulters can move with supporting fires?

How many of you have been in charge of selecting men to do those tasks?

And yet you deride, mock, and insult me?

If women were "equal", then there would be NO SEPARATION IN SPORTS, but there is, because WOMEN CAN'T COMPETE WITH MEN. PERIOD.

If you idiots seriously think our little high school and college girls are worth a damn as a fighter, then you deserve to share their fate. A woman on a combat team of men does NOTHING but slow them down, divide the team, and LOWER STANDARDS because they can't keep up.

But none of you give a damn about any of the men these women are killing in combat, on the police force, or in the fire service. You are all cowards incapable of facing the truth, and it's disgusting that the ego of some incompetent female is more important than the high standards and lives of the men FORCED to serve all you idiots and die in combat as a result.

Would you hate me if I said children don't belong in combat? No? Then why do you lash out when I refuse to comply with slaughtering innocent men to appease the ego of some self serving female that wants to play soldier....until they get pregnant on deployment and leave the men in the trenches as usual.

You should be ashamed of yourselves, and embarassed for your ignorant derision and "white-knighting".

Is it possible for you to take your political diatribe elsewhere?

[weavis]

And this has to do with boating how?

Closed.