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Old 06-10-2018, 05:19   #46
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by CaptFigmo View Post
Chinese sewing microchips into sails so they can spy on you.

They also sew in a device that can be satellite activated to cause your sails to burst into flames.


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Old 06-10-2018, 06:42   #47
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by BambooSailor View Post
I do not mind/care where my sail is made. What pisses me off is when dealer charges 600% profit. For example, I ordered a spinnaker, was charged $3400 after sailboat discounts. Sail was made in Philippines, shipped directly to me and came with an invoice (probably by mistake), $560.
Unfortunately some operations send fake invoices to reduce customs duties.
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Old 06-10-2018, 07:23   #48
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by Maka View Post
What % of boat owners do you think buy sails overseas more than once?
I have had China Sail Factory build sails for me since 2006. Racing sails. 8 in all. I have also had a sail built for a friend. Excellent work, quality, and price. I've found Mathew Ratsey, Bruce Hobday, and all the staff to be, competent, hardworking and honest. I am sorry that they are no longer in operation. I am now working with Windsails in HK where one of the key floor workers has started up, Feng. I believe that Feng, who worked at CSF for 15 years supervised most of my sails. His latest two sails are fine, and very inexpensive. I hope he can make a go of it.
I have had cruising sails built by other Asian companies, fair results, good prices.
I had a jib (MADE in Antigua) by North (Andrew Dove). Excellent sail, my favorite.
So I've had some experience in this. We sail the world. Going local has little meaning for me. The important thing to remember is that a lot of what a sailmaker does is on your boat, with you. The overseas sail factories don't do this. You do, or the local sailmaker who sells you the sail.does. A big part of that higher price you pay for the local sailmaker is service and knowledge. Many problems with wrong sizes etc, come back to wrong measurements. The Asian lofts, I've found, stand behind their work. Service is slow, obviously, but you won't get screwed. But the local guy really is there for you. So it comes down to your choice. I've chosen to save more than 60% and do my own measurements and specs
And I do my own repairs. There you have it.
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Old 06-10-2018, 13:32   #49
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by R. Broomhall View Post
Because I couldn't get China Sail Factory to stand by their product...
It is unfortunate that you got caught in a failing business situation. I had a very frustrating time myself contacting CSF, by phone, or email. Now, it seems that the operation is closed. In fact I would have $433 credit with them if only I could use it.

Previously (as recently as later last year) I had very good luck with CSF, including with some of the people you mentioned. A failed membrane mainsail was replaced. A missed shipment was corrected (not without LOTS of conversation, however).

But in the end I found that their customer service was inadequate. They often failed to reply to emails or phone calls.

When your customers are frustrated because you don't reply to emails, of course they would go somewhere else. Perhaps this is what happened to CSF. If so, it should be a lesson to them and others.
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Old 06-10-2018, 13:46   #50
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by gmakhs View Post
The problem with China sails is that the sailmaker can't really control the quality of the work or the material so if something arrives wrong , they can try to repair or modify the sail , but a modified sail is not a new sail

Another option with the overseas sail factories in the case of an unsuitable product, and one which they all, in my experience support, is to send the sail back. Often they will pay shipping costs. They will inspect the sail, and if the error is their fault, they will fix it or replace it. Of course this takes months. That is a price you pay, a risk you take, to save bucks. As far as quality, I have found the quality of workmanship to be excellent, the designs are done professionally with top quality international design tools, and you get the material you ask for (and pay for) usually the material is same as you'd get anywhere.

On the other hand, if they find the sail was produced exactly to your specs, and there is no workmanship problem, they will return the sail to you and you will have to pay shipping both ways.

Hiring a local sailmaker is like insurance against this. If your local sailmaker makes an error, assumedly he will stand behind his work. You pay for this.

But forget the idea that made is China is poor quality or bad materials. People who say that don't really know what they are talking about.
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Old 06-10-2018, 14:04   #51
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by Sailorbob8599 View Post
As for the "sailmaker" who orders from China Sails, well let's face it, he is now just a 'middle man' you don't need in the purchase of your sails. You can simply order them yourself & save his fee for doing the same thing.
The local sailmaker gives you his service and knowledge and tends to stand behind you. If you order from overseas you don't get that service, knowledge and support. You may save a lot of money but you take a risk. It's your choice. If you can afford it, buy the best, locally (never-mind that they will probably have it made overseas anyhow).

But be aware that the labor of producing the sail is much less if it is made overseas, and they don't need to have a big profit margin to support a local sailor and his family and the national loft organization, if any. So you cut out the local guy, that's the same as any business decision, and you take your chances if there is a measurement issue or a service issue, because then you are on your own.

In my case, I don't have a choice. I could not afford sails made by the local reps of one of the national lofts. So I take on the risk and the work to do the measurement and the specification myself and I get the sails I need at 1/2 to 1/3 the price, sometimes less.
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Old 06-10-2018, 14:40   #52
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China Sail Factory Beware

I have three local(within 10 miles) sail lofts. One makes locally, I think but am not certain. They are the head loft of a global brand. One builds in Sri Lanka. They are a global brand. One builds don’t know where and is a small operation. Local only.
All three service locally. Measure locally. I know the heads of the service loft. I know the salesmen/sailmakers. I know the president or owner of two of the three.
I used to work in the industry and have many friends and acquaintances who do.
I like them all but their sweet spots are different. Service? High tech? Cruising? Racing? Coastal? Offshore? Megayacht?
Get to know and understand who your vendors are and work WITH them to help solve your problems.
I’ve taken sails for service and been told “maybe another season”. Probably right.
I’ve been told “great shape needs the uv cover and leech repaired but you’ll get years more”.
I’ve been told “yes the sail is brand new but it’s not right here is what I want to do”.
Yes it’s more money than just mail order. But our sails are our engines. I’m ok paying for good service. I’m am fortunate that I can afford it. I also believe that in the long run it can be cheaper.
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Old 07-10-2018, 21:55   #53
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

And are you really a current sailmaker?
Australia hasn't used the American system of measurement for 50 years. If that's the type of measurements you sent them perhaps they got confused.
I've purchased sails from Far East Sails twice and wouldn't buy anywhere else.
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Old 08-10-2018, 16:32   #54
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Re: China Sail Factory Beware

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Originally Posted by john murfet View Post
And are you really a current sailmaker?
Australia hasn't used the American system of measurement for 50 years. If that's the type of measurements you sent them perhaps they got confused.
I've purchased sails from Far East Sails twice and wouldn't buy anywhere else.
All sailmakers are very familiar with imperial and metric and conversions thereof, sailing is a worldwide activity and features boats designed and built from many different countries.
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