Charter with ASA Skipper, why?

[ed91e]

Hi,
For our upcoming charter in the caribbean we will hire a skipper.
If we select the slightly more expensive ASA Skipper, will that be any advantage for my future RYA Day Skipper course?
If not, are there any other advantages?
TIA.

[Snore]

While a non-Instructor can teach you to sail, an ASA Instructor will teach you correctly. S/He is more likely to be able to discuss the theory of sailing better than a non-Instructor.

Not sure if it will help with the RYA, but if you don’t know sailing- start with an ASA Instructor.

[LittleWing77]

It will not make one whit of difference in your RYA programme.

Hope you have a lovely charter!
Warmly,
Little Wing

[ed91e]

Originally Posted by Snore

While a non-Instructor can teach you to sail, an ASA Instructor will teach you correctly. S/He is more likely to be able to discuss the theory of sailing better than a non-Instructor.

Not sure if it will help with the RYA, but if you don’t know sailing- start with an ASA Instructor.

Thanks
I’ve sailed since young. But I don’t have any documented experience

[LittleWing77]

Then RYA is DEFinitely the way to go. If you have the resources to go the full stretch (Day Skipper, Coastal Skipper and Yachtmaster - Ocean master is cool, but I did the courses and didn't feel a need to do the final exam just for an added piece of paper), the RYA training is incredibly thorough and very, very valuable - which you will find out for yourself.

Snore is a Master Mariner, so his perspective is seasoned and wise. As an intro, I imagine an ASA charter would provide a great jumping-off point.

Fair Winds and let us (CF) know how it's going!
Feel free to PM if you have specific Qs,
Warmly,
Little Wing

[DeepCut]

It depends on the skipper. If picking blindly, ASA skipper gives a minimum qualification (and seeking that certification, ASA Skipper displayed a desire to teach sailing).
However, a particular non-ASA skipper may be better.

Discuss your desire to learn with the charter company and they may be able to link you with a skipper who, although non-certified, is a good instructor. Otherwise, go ASA.

[jrbogie]

Originally Posted by Snore

While a non-Instructor can teach you to sail, an ASA Instructor will teach you correctly. S/He is more likely to be able to discuss the theory of sailing better than a non-Instructor.

Not sure if it will help with the RYA, but if you don’t know sailing- start with an ASA Instructor.

nope, ain't buying. i'm not a certified instructor but I have given freely instruction for more than half a century. of late I host sailing meetups who's membership is made up of very competent sailors, novices, newbee asa graduates and no less than two asa instructors. other than the more experienced, all are lacking in the knowledge of theory.

just last week, for instance, an instructor asked me what the theoretical hull speed of my boat was and a recent asa graduate chimed in that he was curious as well as we were moving along nicely at 7 knots close hauled. I replied that the overall length on deck is 42.5 feet with a waterline length of 38.2 feet. they both looked at me like i'm sniffing airplane glue and the instructor replied, "you don't know then?"

"I do know," I said, "and you should know too with a little math work." "huh?" was all I got from him so I went on that the theoretical hull speed of any boat is calculated by multiplying 1.34 times the square root of the waterline length. he comes back smirking with something like "are you saying that two boats of the same waterline length but one weighing twice as much with twice the beam have the same theoretical hull speed?" with a sarcastic chuckle.

" uh, yeah, that's what i'm saying."

it was a nice sail anyway but he kinda rushed off the boat back at the slip. it was pretty obvious that he was headed for his text books. never saw him again.

I've never run across a recent asa graduate that is versed in much theory and certainly much knowledge of sail trim. hear often that those who can do, do and those who can't teach. hear it, never actually said it.

[Snore]

Originally Posted by ed91e

Thanks
I’ve sailed since young. But I don’t have any documented experience

Then it wouldn’t matter.

As I stated in my original post, there are no absolutes as to what is better. As others are quick point out not all ASA Instructors are the same.

[gulfcoastsailor]

In the ‘90s, we chartered with Sunsail with a serious ASA instructor. In one week we got ASA 101,102,103 and 104. BTW we still had lots of fun time after 3p. If you can set that up, you will have done a good thing.

[jmschmidt]

Cool answer man. Kept him guessing about the need for sufficient power available to achieve that theoretical hull speed. Hope he checks out the theory behind plaining hulls now.

[Tingum]

Originally Posted by gulfcoastsailor

In the ‘90s, we chartered with Sunsail with a serious ASA instructor. In one week we got ASA 101,102,103 and 104. BTW we still had lots of fun time after 3p. If you can set that up, you will have done a good thing.

Do you really think all those numbers mean you have any actual experience?

[Lake-Effect]

Originally Posted by ed91e

Hi,
For our upcoming charter in the caribbean we will hire a skipper.
If we select the slightly more expensive ASA Skipper, will that be any advantage for my future RYA Day Skipper course?
If not, are there any other advantages?
TIA.

If the ASA skipper is an instructor and you will be getting some ASA credits or levels, then he/she would make sense... otherwise, if you are already experienced sailors and you're getting a skipper for local knowledge and some help with the bigger boat, the ASA part probably wouldn't matter.


Ideally, the best thing is a personal reference from somebody you trust. "We had X as skipper and it was great because they had a great easygoing personality and they helped with A and B and C"... but it's probably hard to get that.

Originally Posted by Tingum

Do you really think all those [ASA course] numbers mean you have any actual experience?

Learning is information plus experience. Assuming you respect the ASA, their courses, and their instructor program, then if you can learn the subject matter, and demonstrate competence in it during a week's charter... that's something, innit? It's a foundation to draw on as you get more experience.

[Lihuedooley77]

i have no idea what the requirements for the RYA certifications are, since we are here in yankeedom. You will have all that info.

In the U.S.A....

I hold a U.S.C.G Merchant Marine Capt. 100 ton license. The written U.S.C.G. exam, ( took a day and half at the U.S.CG. testing facility. )

Just to qualify to sit for the license, I had to have 720 days at sea documented time, ( that took 5 years ) and listed all of the many sailing vessels and motor vessels , areas sailed, courses, and training, and recommendation letters, proof of U.S. CITIZEN SHIP... etc. Time logged had to be as crew, not skipper.

There were several sections of which many took 90% to pass. Others were 70%, If you failed a section, you were done. Come back the next day or whatever. If you failed that same section again, , come back after 30 days after more study and then continue on with the remaining sections. This exam blows ASA out of the stadium. No contest.

I am now on my 5th issue , they expire after 5 years . My original license was for 100 tons, on the 5th issue, the U.S.C.G. upgraded it to 500 tons.

I have also taken the ASA test when joining a sailing club to use their fleet boats. Missed 2 out of entire test.

I am retired , and no longer working under the auspices of my U.S.C.G. license, but at least Erica and I are still sailing. Tahiti, Tonga , Australia, ,
BVI , Ireland and Greece.

Our next BVI two week sailing vacation in may of 2019, will be BVI trip # 17, Point being, we have been sailing a lot , for a lot of years, in a lot of different waters , and have witnessed a lot out there on the water. While serving Professionally , and non revenue as well.

As to if having an ASA instructor on board perhaps this is a stranger who appointed himself as skipper by himself, or the charter outfit gave him a captain's base ball cap, without any professional training , or a resume of actual real live experience. Be careful.

I would be more impressed if the charter skipper had been thru professional training of some kind, and took the responsibility to put effort into gaining some kind of certification along with a few years of professional experience. It takes both.

As to the RYA, again, I do not know what they require for certification, but if you need a certain amount of sea time, just record it in a log, as crew.

Name of vessel, type, LOA, registration number, days served , area sailed.
Name of skipper ( if applicable) , and the name charter company for verification, etc.) of our sea time.

What we see out there on the ocean, and harbors , and bays, local and international waters is a total lack of seamanship. My SWAG is about 85 to 90 % fall into that lack ability category . They sure make a lot of noise in the bar , however.

I have been sailing professionally for coming on 40 years, as an instructor, charter captain, delivery skipper, and leading flotillas in the south pacific and caribbean, plus teaching seminars on marine weather, etc, etc. No matter all that, we continue to learn .

Point being, good on ya for getting your RYA certification, and having the persistence and motivation to do so. You will have a fantastic time, learning, and accomplishing the task. Actually, it will be fun !

As to un qualified charter skippers :

Just one quick sea story. Last time that Erica and I were sailing the BVI, May 2017, trip # 16, We were at Cooper Island, on a mooring. A 45 ft or longer catamaran came into the mooring field at good rate of speed. He had about 10 to 12 passengers on board of all ages.

Engines roaring, missing the mooring, all astern, hard to starboard, hard to port, dropping the boat hook into the water, and that was hauled out by an elderly grand ma. Condo maximal party time.

Again, all ahead, then his engines astern, never looking behind him, backing fast toward our vessel. We had the engine of our jeanneau 36i, running to charge the batteries , I told Erica to take the helm. I ran up forward to drop off the mooring, I took the helm, and we backed astern to get away from this CHARTER SKIPPER.

We slowly motored out to sea , hauled the sails up and out, and off to our next destination. Very dangerous situation. After we dropped off , another monohull dropped off, and followed us out. . They were moored in the same vicinity that we were in. And this large roaring about sailing cat was with one of the very famous charter companies in the BVI. Name emblazoned on their sail cover.

Also, agree, that not all ASA sailing schools have the same caliber of experienced instructors . Some are highly skilled and knowledgeable, others are not.

So, what the heck do you do. Easy, you start keeping a log of your sea time, whether sailing with a buddy, or a charter company, also go back over the years that you have been sailing and professionally log that time. Plus , get out there sailing and gaining more and more experience.

Most of the charter skippers in the BVI are excellent, no problem and highly respected, but seeing this one instance of wild and dangerous chaos, I would want to know the qualifications of the charter skipper, especially if having my family and friends on board. How old is he, what is his back ground. Where has he , or she sailed before.

Regardless, if ASA, or a long term self taught and experienced skipper, all of that sea time can be logged.

Also, if we had a large group on a cool cat, we would add in a combo cook/, bartender/ deckhand. Time for all of you to enjoy, and keep the peace and spoil yourselves a bit. Ahhh, yes, dark rum on the rocks with a splash of water and a lime , please. Thank you.

For your Caribbean sailing adventure, You certainly can get in some helm time, relieve the skipper, help hoisting the main, rolling out the jib, picking up moorings, anchoring, or docking,

Maybe get with the skipper as to the next destination, check the weather , wind direction, what points of sail, do you need to reef, headings thru the passes, base course to get you there, and tacking and coming about, and sail trim.

Good ol' coastal piloting. You can back up your navigation skills , with the GPS as well. Use all aspects of navigating that are available to you, including eyeballs and reading the reefs and depths.

Have a marvelous sailing vacation.

The fun light is going to be glowing brightly.

[jmschmidt]

Being a retired airline captain and a USCG licensed master with several thousands of hours teaching in both disciplines, believe me I'm not knocking the value of anyone's training program. But the trend of requiring the RYA was cooked up by the EU and IMO with a United Nations resolution (the US did not sign the resolution) to create a very costly road block to chartering in EU countries. Why? Who knows why, just to take your money and control you life I would imagine, just like all unfettered bureaucracies who don't answer to the people.

Previously I was a half-owner of the Mooring 4700 in French Polynesia. I just heard my former boat partner spent well over $3,000 for travel, lodging, incidentals and the course fee to complete the RYA courses. I own a charter boat in the BVI and I hope the French and Dutch controlled charter venues in the Caribbean adopt the RYA requirement and drive more customers my way. Long live BREXIT.

[guyrj33]

Originally Posted by ed91e

Thanks
I’ve sailed since young. But I don’t have any documented experience

If you've been sailing for that length of time, is someone requiring you to hire a skipper?

I've sailed to Bermuda 3 times and can navigate in fog, but it's not documented.