Charging Rent

[Love2 boat]

Originally Posted by Montanan

Solution in a word:
Uber.
Think of the public service as Uber or Lift but operated by the city at no charge.

https://www.newsweek.com/man-refunde...ear-dc-1666158


lol

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

No wonder you love where you live so much!

Indeed Stu, I became smitten with Montaña and moved from the wonderful San Francisco Bay Area 30 years ago. The State is called The Last Best Place for many reasons and there is a lot of it to love.

There are so few of us Montañans that after your second bus trip the driver will know your name and you will know theirs, it is like being greeted by a friendly school bus driver when you were a kid and one often has the bus completely alone, like being chauffeured. Ditto as to knowing people when greeting the security agents when passing through TSA at many of the airports and greeting of the flight attendants as you board, and similarly getting to know all the check-out clerks at the grocery stores. But even though the TSA guards know you by first and last name they still need to see one's identification to maintain protocols. It is funny to have them ask: "Dan can I see your identification?" as you hand them your boarding pass and you respond: "Sure Bob, here you go."

When one drives in town or on a rural roadway, it is customary to make eye contact and give a gentle wave and a nod to EVERY driver that comes the opposing way, and they reciprocate. It remains typical to stop to let pedestrians cross the road or even on a State highway, albeit not on the Interstate as those are Freeways. Out of Staters in particular kind of freak out when you slow from 70 mph to a dead stop on the highway because you spotted a person with an intention to cross the roadway. Why did the chicken cross the road? Because a Montanan stopped to let it.

Road rage in Montana occurs when four people come to a four way stop sign intersection and each and every one of them await their turn to go after the person toward their right, and each wave to the person on their right to proceed. Around and around, and around and everyone becomes ever more adamant that they will not be the first to proceed. "After you. No after you. No, no after you. . . .

"In Montana, a policeman will pull you over because he is lonely."
— Rich Hall
And to be friendly, to add, I know most of the police and the sheriffs by name. I have on occasion pulled them over to make introductions when I see someone that I haven't made acquaintance with. Surest way to blow the minds of New York's Finest in Blue is to stop one to say hello when visiting the Big Apple.

Google the word “paradise,” and you will find it described as “an ideal or idyllic place or state.” But what is ideal or idyllic to you may not be so for another. That is the beauty of perspective — it offers a multitude of lenses through which to understand the world.

Some quotes about Montana that sum up the character and quality of the Big Sky Country [a.k.a., our 406 Country]:

Starting with a bit of history - The becoming of a US Territory and then a State.

On May 26, 1864, then-President Abraham Lincoln signed into legislature the Montana Organic Act. This document effectively made Montana a territory of the Union (which encompassed the geographical north of what would come to be the United States). The name for this territory — one known for its snow-capped mountains, expansive valleys, and winding rivers — came from the Spanish word montaña, meaning “mountain.” More broadly, the word is used to describe generally mountainous country. Montaña del Norte was the name early Spanish explorers gave to the peak-filled region that is now known as the western United States. For Lincoln, no term better embodied the wildness, the grandeur, and the rugged topography of this newly acquired territory.

Upon signing the Montana Organic Act, Lincoln remarked, “My favorite State has not yet been invented. It will be called Montana, and it will be perfect.” The territory of Montana remained so for twenty-five years: a territory. It wasn’t until the passing of the Enabling Act of 1889 and the ratification of a new State constitution that Montana was admitted into the Union on November 8, 1889. And as Abe, foretold, IMHO, it remains perfect.

I’m in love with Montana. For other states, I have admiration, respect, recognition, even some affection. But with Montana it is love.
— John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley

It seems to me Montana is a great splash of grandeur. The scale is huge but not overpowering. The land is rich with grass and color, and the mountains are the kind I would create if mountains were ever put on my agenda.
— John Steinbeck, Travels with Charley

Of all the memorable views, the best have been framed by Montana windows.
— William Hjortsberg

Montana should come with a surgeon general warning that it’s addictive. The sky is big and blue, and the air is always fresh and crisp and scented with pine. There’s a frontier spirit, but also a calmness, beauty in the landscape that slows your pulse.
— Robin Bielman

The allure of Montana is like a commitment to a narcotic; you can never use it up or get enough of it. Its wilderness areas probably resemble the earth on the first day of creation.
— James Lee Burke

Just as converts make the best Catholics, so newcomers make the most rabidly possessive Montanans. Everyone who moves to Montana wants to be the last one allowed in.
— Glenn Law


The winter’s a little bit daunting in Montana.
— Phil Jackson

Albeit come about the beginning of February winter become rather tiresome; the four seasons being June, July, August and winter. I shall endeavor to become a snowbird in the nearer years to come. Being so very fond of the South Pacific and New Zealand, both of which to be on my winter agendas for "business development" purpose of my newest start-up company, [been working from home the last 18 months, yet will need to travel extensively internationally [if Covid is allowing??] to facilitate our transformative primary renewable energy technology to be rapidly adopted and transitioned towards.
I am sure to find some more Next To The Last Best Places in my future international wanderings, there being many fine places on our earth, but only one Montana.

FYI. Pictured below is the City of Polson on Flathead Lake within the Flathead Nation of the Confederated Salish Tribes and the Kootenai Tribe within which reservation I have the privilege to have my primary residence, of my three residences in Montaña. Flathead is a crystal clear alpine lake and the largest lake in the USA west of the Great Lakes. It avails a short but wonderful and uncrowded sailing season, late May to early September.

Even the CONSTITUTION of the STATE OF MONTANA has some unique attributes.
A snipet.

PREAMBLE

We the people of Montana grateful to God for the quiet beauty of our state, the grandeur of our mountains, the vastness of our rolling plains, and desiring to improve the quality of life, equality of opportunity and to secure the blessings of liberty for this and future
generations do ordain and establish this constitution.

ARTICLE I

COMPACT WITH THE UNITED STATES
All provisions of the enabling act of Congress (approved February 22, 1889, 25 Stat. 676), as amended and of Ordinance No. 1, appended to the Constitution of the state of Montana and approved February 22, 1889, including the agreement and declaration that all lands owned or held by any Indian or Indian tribes shall remain under the absolute jurisdiction and control of the congress of the United States, continue in full force and effect until revoked by the consent of the United States and the people of Montana.

ARTICLE II
DECLARATION OF RIGHTS

Section 1. POPULAR SOVEREIGNTY. All political power is vestedin and derived
from the people. All government of right originates with the people, is founded upon their will only, and is instituted solely for the good of the whole.

Section 2 . SELF-GOVERNMENT. The people have the exclusive right of governing
themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state. They may alter or abolish the constitution and form of government whenever they deem it necessary.

Section 3 . INALIENABLE RIGHTS All persons are born free and have certain inalienable rights. They include the right to a clean and healthful environment and the rights of pursuing life’s basic necessities, enjoying and defending their lives and liberties, acquiring, possessing and protecting property, and seeking their safety, health and happiness in all lawful
ways. In enjoying these rights, all persons recognize corresponding responsibilities.

Section 4 . INDIVIDUAL DIGNITY. The dignity of the human being is inviolable.
No person shall be denied the equal protection of the laws. Neither the state nor any person, firm, corporation, or institution shall discriminate against any person in the exercise of his civil or political rights on account of race, color, sex, culture, social origin or condition, or political or religious ideas.

Wishing all a Happy and Healthy New Year! Hoping that 2022 will evolve to not be 2020, too.

[Montanan]

Originally Posted by Love2 boat

https://www.newsweek.com/man-refunde...ear-dc-1666158


lol

Good on Uber for refunding the $600 fee.

Ah yes, a classic example of winter driving [read not driving] for places south of the Mason Dixon line.

Then there be winter travel in Montana: Reference attached picture.

The City of Dillon where my second residence is located and which is the largest town in the county, [which county is larger than the state of Connecticutt] does not plow the city roads during winter, they don't own a plow. The snow packs to ice as one drives and the roads just ice over several inches thick and one does not even give a second to think about doing otherwise. When the snow is more than a foot deep, the cars that do not have high ground clearance tend to struggle to get about which is why most everyone has full size 4 x 4 pickup trucks or Suburban and very few sedans. There has never been a snow day for the schools during my 30 years and I have only once used chains and that was to get down a steep winding ice covered one lane, forest service road from a high elevation lake near Bozeman.

I do recall one day when the school buses were an hour behind schedule on their morning routes in picking up children to drive them into town from The Big Hole about 60+ miles to county school because the temperature was a balmy -35 F and some of the bus's diesel fuel had jelled up and need to be warmed to be able to get the engines operating to go out on their routes. The rural kids did get a bit chilled standing out in the cold and wind waiting an uncharacteristically long time before their school bus arrived, no doubt beginning to wonder why the bus was running late and if the bus were even going to come.

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Walking the docks? No. But there have been several cases in the last couple of years of the Coast Guard prosecuting people for running unlicensed commercial operations. A search here will reveal a couple of discussions about this.

This is a lot like doing 100mph down some back country road...typically there will be no cops to catch you. Miss a turn and roll the car injuring you passenger and suddenly, they are all over it.

Usually it would be when things go sideways that the USCG would get involved.
When your "roommate" is at the helm and rams another boat injuring someone, the USCG gets involved and suddenly they are very interested in your commercial status.

[Starbuck]

Ever get the feeling that the person you're talking with is going to do exactly what he wants to do, no matter what you say?

[Jim Cate]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Ever get the feeling that the person you're talking with is going to do exactly what he wants to do, no matter what you say?

Yep... so, OP go ahead with your plan. Perhaps there will be someone who resonates with your ideas (no matter how I doubt that), someone who will join you, pay your "rent" and do y our boat chores for you and then smile when you and he (she?) disagree on something and leave without dobbing you in to the authorities.

But I doubt it.

Jim

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by Starbuck

Ever get the feeling that the person you're talking with is going to do exactly what he wants to do, no matter what you say?

VERY common on forums like this one. A new guy appears and asks a question. But he isn't really asking a question. He has already made up his mind, and wants affirmation of his decision. What he is hoping is that a bunch of people will tell him, "hey! that's a great idea!" Of course, he gets frustrated when they don't.



I do not know if that is what the OP was hoping for in this case. It kind of seems like it. In any case, it is very, very common.

[DMF Sailing]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

VERY common on forums like this one. A new guy appears and asks a question. But he isn't really asking a question. He has already made up his mind, and wants affirmation of his decision. What he is hoping is that a bunch of people will tell him, "hey! that's a great idea!" Of course, he gets frustrated when they don't.



I do not know if that is what the OP was hoping for in this case. It kind of seems like it. In any case, it is very, very common.

I actually love this kind of "why can't I harpoon a right whale" thread.

The more the OPs stick to their guns, the more people chime in with information and resources about what you can and can't do with money when you invite people on your boat.

And I learned how to say "dime you out" in Australian (?)

Cuts through the winter blahs, especially when I haven't got a "replacing fairlead tracks on deck with tension rings on the coachroof--good idea or bad?" thread to post myself.

[joelhemington]

Originally Posted by SVDontpanic

Not sure if this is the right place for this, but the 'Crew Positions' forum was just 'Looking for ...' type posts.


For non-professional crew, I see two types:

(1) On for just a passage or specific journey who leave the boat at the destination.

(2) Indefinite crew, who are living on the boat without a schedule or specific destination.



For number (2), is it justified that I charge rent? I feel that I am because they would be living on my boat, my home, just like they would need to if they rented a room in a house. I'd expect normal roommate things, like keep common areas clean, share cooking, food/provisioning cost, etc. I would not expect them to assist with maintaining the boat, like routine maintenance, repairs, and stuff. I would expect them to help with sailing activities and watches, something I figure they are willing to do if they choose to live on a sailboat.



Any input?

Normally, when people rent a house, it's to be in close proximity to a job market where they can earn a living. They obviously can't do that on your boat. If you need help sailing you should forget the rent and plan to pay all the expenses yourself as you are geting free labor (in a sense).

[Derek010]

You let the wrong person aboard I can see a ton of problems besides those already mentioned. Your sailing from Jacksonville and next stop you have planned is Norfolk, but that doesn't work for your roomie they wanted to stop in Orient so next thing you know they're on the horn with the CG. They exchange one cent to stay on that boat and it's not working you can't just throw their bags on the dock, renters have rights. They call the police and you have a eviction process so plan to stick around for court. They should pay for their own food, soap, laundry, ECT. Imo do it yourself and when it is no longer the privilege of living on your boat for free "just like a house" then maybe take someone on. I would take crew on for companionship and I enjoy the company of others, you sound like you'd be counting how many times they used the head and why should you have to pay for pumpout when they took showers 2 minutes longer than you did. I could be way off but doesn't sound like it.

[nofacey]

I cruised extensively with crew that shared expenses. Food, fuel, moorage. Flew themselves in/out, Any booze, individual immigration fees were their’s. Never an issue…..but I screened heavily.

[T. Lee]

Originally Posted by SVDontpanic

Yes if it is voluntary, then you are right, I would be fine. Is insinuating to potential long term crew that they need to volunteer $$$ no longer voluntary? Paranoid me says that I'd loose that case in court.

It's time to go pass my OUPV

Just tell the judge where you got your advice!

[lo2jones]

When I got my OUPV in 1990 they explained that if someone bought the captain a hamburger, that can be construed as “consideration.”

[judojim]

Boat or House sitting in Lake Worth area (Lake Worth, FL)

I posted this on craigslist: https://miami.craigslist.org/pbc/res...433423823.html



Boat or House sitting in Lake Worth, Florida area.
I am a retired Realtor. I have managed many properties during my career including House Sitting. I have also lived on sail and power boats. I have a captains license too.
Now, I am changing careers to begin teaching in Lake Worth, FL.
I have a lot of experience with the needs of folks who go on vacation, and need to leave their pets in mature, competent hands.
I can supply many references of folks who I've helped over the years.
Please reply back to this post with your contact information and let me know the dates and the particulars of your needs.
I should be available beginning the second week in February, or maybe earlier.
If you need to leave for vacation, or for other reasons, please contact me to discuss your needs and options.
Thanks,
Jim

[GrowleyMonster]

Originally Posted by SVDontpanic

That pdf link and other searches do show that, by the book, I would be considered a UPV. So it looks like I'll be getting my OUPV, just to get a roommate on my boat.

There are a few hoops you have to jump through to get your license, even a six-pack license. See 46 CFR 10 through 16.