|
|
28-03-2017, 04:50
|
#16
|
Registered User
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Caribbean
Boat: 2014 Lagoon 380
Posts: 10
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I use bosun's chair when someone is available to help and the Mastclimber when someone isn't. Great product and very secure. See link for details: www.atninc.com
Agree with others that the chair is difficult to do work on top this the climber comes in handy again.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 05:05
|
#17
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 5,014
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
Search for "arborist saddle." These are used by professionals who climb trees, and hang there for long periods, while they trim branches, cut the tops off, or whatever. Unlike a climbing harness, they are not just made to catch you if you fall. They have well-padded leg straps and are designed, right from the start, for sitting in, securely and comfortably, for a good long time.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 06:26
|
#18
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
This wasn't directly asked for, however it sounds like the OP is putting together a (semi) dedicated mast climbing rig. So below is a fairly comprehensive list covering one or two ways of safely going aloft. Take from it what's useful. And if you've more to add, please do, including the why behind same. Since as I figure it, we all can benefit from learning about/enhanced safety aloft. And to pool our collective wisdom in order to make this happen.
My mast climbing rig's kinda old school, but hey, it works... so I leave it alone (mostly). It’s designed so that me going up a rig, solo, is both a no brainer AND is Also SAFE. Keeping in mind that it’s come into being from my caring for my own boat(s) over the years, & via having been the Bosun on many Large private yachts Which, as such I’ve had plenty of occasion to go up 100' sticks solo… for most kinds of jobs which you can name. And this is reflected in my gear
1st off, I Primarily run a 6:1 purchase (or needs be 5:1 on an uber tall stick) with a triple with a ratchet block on it’s lower end. With the block’s ratchet being of the manually switching on/off type. This, is fitted with 600’ of (11mm) 7/16" Regatta Braid led through said setup. The line is a good size for gripping, runs freely through my tackle (sans hockles), & doesn't induce a hernia when I lift the whole rig when it’s in it’s duffle.
The block's shackles are Loctited & safety wired. Using 1.5-2mm Spectra "thread", & BLUE Loctite.
I always tie off the tackle’s upper block to a halyard using a bowline, in a section of the halyard where there’s NO splice/splice or tail for the halyard’s shackle.
NOTE: The blocks are Harken ball bearing types, as they have utterly the lowest friction around. Which is key!
For a safety line, I tie in a single, oversized ratchet block to a different halyard. Through which I run a solid colored length of line. Such that neither I nor anyone else, could ever get my lines confused.
This safety line gets tied onto my harness at one end, passes through the single ratchet block near the masthead, & then to a belay/rappel device on my harness’s belt..
As to my "Bosun’s Chair", it's a customized “Big Wall” (climber's) harness with a few extra security attachments. In addition to it’s being mod’d so as to have lots of pockets, loops, & lanyards for gear. Plus a bit of added extra padding in/on the waist belt, & thigh straps. Which are NICE to have items if you’re up there for half of the day.
Guilty!!!
On one side of my harness , I have a sheath/holster for; a customized Crescent Wrench which has a LOOONG Marling spike welded onto it, serving as the wrench’s handle. As well as for splicing wire, & sometimes just being a big assed, brute force, useful tool. And of course, said spike is drilled for and fitted with a lanyard.
Next to it, in the same custom sheath is a pair of Large semi-needle nose Vice Grips: And they’re fitted with a phone-cord type, collapsible lanyard.
Also, I carry a waterproof Rite-In-The-Rain notepad, plus a pencil (with it’s own lanyard ;-)
On the other side of the harness is/can be;
~ a pair of Dial Calipers
~ a sheath for several Screwdrivers. Particularly, BIG ones, in addition to 1-2 standard sized one(s), with various bit tips for swapping out (again, on lanyards).
~ a splicing wand from Brion Toss Yacht Riggers. With spare loops.
~ a spare “McGuyver” (type) Pocket. Commonly used to hold some of the following (depending on the “mission”);
~ a Headlamp type flashlight (torch)
~ 50x pocket microscope, or Magnifying glass (with lanyard & case)
~ Makita screw gun/drill – with some of the following:
- Drill bits, & Screwdriver tips
- Taps (plus small bolts to tap into sheaves. These are used to attach keeper lines to sheaves).
- Spare Sheaves
- Tape Measure (100’)
- Tube of Loctite (blue)
- small Tube of Silicone, for covering the ends of split pins.
- Stick on Reflective SOLAS Patches, for placing on the mast to enhance the boat’s visibility
- Grease Pencil(s)
- Magic Marker – Fine Tipped, with Waterproof Ink.
- Rite-in-The-Rain waterproof Notepad, + Pencil.
- Spare cordage (both large & small diameter; some of it Spectra)
- Seizing wire (Stainless or Monel, & Spectra)
- PVC tubing for use in High Chafe areas
- Insignia Cloth for use in areas prone to chafing
- Small screw top Container of various Fasteners, & Washers (of all sizes).
- Spare Bulbs for; spreader lights, steaming light(s), & tricolor
- tube of Tef-Gel
- McLube/SailCote Drylube
- OneDrop Harken bearing lubricant
- T9 Boseshield
- Spare Spreader Boot, or Tennis Ball + appropriate tape, or sewing gear
- combo Wire Stripper/Crimpers
- Micro Torch & Solder
- Rags (possibly with a cleaning agent)
- Flitz metal polish + Toothbrush
- 3M Scotchbrite Pads
- a small Camera, with Lanyard
- a Halyard Pre-feeding line/kit
- Self-amalgamating/Rigging tape
- Electrical Continuity Test Kit, or
- Multimeter
- Friction tape, & Duct tape
- Electrical Tape
- Serving & Parceling line
- Sand Paper
- Small Files
- AND, a water bottle, plus a few cocktails in a can. Along with some impeccably seasoned & aged Beef Jerky.
- Can of Altoids.
NOTE: They’re not listed here specifically, as when I’m onboard a vessel they’re always with me But I ALWAYS carry; 2 folding rigging knives (minimum, with 1+ of them on lanyards), Plus:
- a Marling Spike with built in Shackle Key,
- a Fid for Spinnaker Shackles
- a small Mini-Mag flashlight (torch) or similar.
A few other KEY mods to my chair/harness are;
I always have carry an easy to grab, Extra, (locking) Carabiner (or 3) with me. One of which will have 2 Adjustable length Foot Loops made from webbing. So that once I get to the masthead, I can set things up so that I can stand up while still in the harness. That way I can both see and work on things that’re literally on the top of a spar. And that are out of reach via conventional Bosun’s chairs.
Also, in my climbing rig bag, I keep:
Spare buckles for every connection on said chair, & then some.
A small sewing kit, consisting of; a tube of sailmaker’s needles, a sail maker’s palm, pliers, Spectra & regular threads, extra webbing, Super Glue. A few Band-Aids, a Micro Torch, & Solder Various Coaxial Cable end fittings..
Plus: Spare cotter pins, with extra clevis pins also. And split pins of various sizes.
And finally. A canvas or standard bucket, & a messenger line for same. One long enough to reach the from the masthead to the waterline.
Plus, of course, any other essential rigging fittings
NOTE: I divy up my tools carried aloft between; Soft pockets on the bucket’s inside, & outside. My vest’s/ coat’s pockets. Trouser thigh/cargo pockets, Bandolier o’ multi’ pockets, & MOLLE attachments/pockets on same, if the space is needed. Ditto a fanny/butt pack if needed. Or even a MOLLE vest. Just watch out for snags when going up, or coming down And also, remove any & all frag's from it's pockets first
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 06:46
|
#19
|
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,865
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I have never been aloft in just a bosun's chair. I got about 10 meters in one once, the first time, and had to be let back down -- scared the bejeezus out of me. I don't think I'm inordinately afraid of heights -- I've done a solo parachute jump in a Soviet Air Force fast drop (eek!) chute, and didn't lose consciousness. But the bosun's chair was too much for me.
I use a climbing harness AND bosun's chair. I like sitting in the bosun's chair as long as I don't depend on it to keep me from falling to my death. One halyard attached to the chair and the other to the harness. But if I need to move around much (like getting to the ends of the spreaders), then I ditch the chair and go up in the harness alone.
A ladder would be best of all so long as you don't need to get to the ends of your spreaders etc.. But you still want the harness, with a safety line on it.
So in my opinion, a climbing harness is absolutely indispensible for going aloft, whatever other means you have of getting up there.
My biggest frustration going aloft is getting up high enough to work on stuff on the masthead truck. Next time I have the stick out, I'm going to put in a couple of folding steps up at the top of the mast for that. Maybe in the meantime I'll sling a strop with loops at either end, across the truck.
My biggest fear is that whoever is winching me won't stop at the top and will break the block, maybe dropping me. Makes me fear using the electric winches, although it is horrendously tedious to winch me up almost 80' of mast by hand.
Ah, going aloft -- definitely a love/hate relationship for me.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 06:58
|
#20
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I'd venture that electric winches are okay here, as they are in most other applications. By Using PROPER Technique. Meaning, not putting the line on them into any self-tailing jaws. And tailing the line as if there were no self-tailing features available. That way it's a LOT tougher to overtension, or overhoist a line. Albeit such is probably an unpopular sentiment with many. Especially those of small forearms
It's just too easy to switch on a winch's power for a few seconds too long. And what happens when the controls freeze, or the breaker jams? It happens a lot more often than you'd think. Much to the benefit of the sailmakers
Dockhead, you do realize that you can add those steps up there, now. With the only tricky part being to watch out for the mast's internal wiring, when you're drill & tapping for fasteners. And of course, don't put any steps anywhere they can get snagged by a spinnaker that's decided to lose it's mind
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 07:09
|
#21
|
Moderator
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Denmark (Winter), Helsinki (Summer); Cruising the Baltic Sea this year!
Boat: Cutter-Rigged Moody 54
Posts: 33,865
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED
. . .
1st off, I Primarily run a 6:1 purchase (or needs be 5:1 on an uber tall stick) with a triple with a ratchet block on it’s lower end. With the block’s ratchet being of the manually switching on/off type. This, is fitted with 600’ of (11mm) 7/16" Regatta Braid led through said setup. The line is a good size for gripping, runs freely through my tackle (sans hockles), & doesn't induce a hernia when I lift the whole rig when it’s in it’s duffle.
The block's shackles are Loctited & safety wired. Using 1.5-2mm Spectra "thread", & BLUE Loctite.
I always tie off the tackle’s upper block to a halyard using a bowline, in a section of the halyard where there’s NO splice/splice or tail for the halyard’s shackle.
NOTE: The blocks are Harken ball bearing types, as they have utterly the lowest friction around. Which is key!
For a safety line, I tie in a single, oversized ratchet block to a different halyard. Through which I run a solid colored length of line. Such that neither I nor anyone else, could ever get my lines confused.
This safety line gets tied onto my harness at one end, passes through the single ratchet block near the masthead, & then to a belay/rappel device on my harness’s belt..
[FONT=Calibri][COLOR=black]
|
This sounds very interesting indeed, but I can't quite picture it. Maybe you could draw? I suspect that this is something greatly superior to what I'm doing, and I'd like to try to imitate it. Might be useful to the OP as well.
I guess you've got it rigged as single purchase, with one end belayed to your harness and the other end in a rappel device. But how do you rig the ratchet block? Do you just haul it up from the end of the halyard, or tie it in to the middle so that you can belay the halyard at the base of the mast? And why a ratchet block?
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 07:55
|
#22
|
Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 223
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
Without going into a lot of stuff that has been pretty well dissected here I will add my two cents and say that you have to find what works for you and that can certainly vary from boat to boat and individual to individual.
I have been up a lot of masts with a lot of different equipment and it all worked, I never took a fall with any of it. I am safe but not anal. On my own boat I have a system that lets me climb alone in any conditions for I am predominantly a solo sailor. I carry a Mast Mate and I love it, but it has some drawbacks. It is supposed to go in the mainsail track and that certainly helps stabilize the steps, but I have tried using it off one of the forward halyards and hanging in free air. It works as a free hanging ladder but is a little bit more of a challenge.
I have two retractable steps just above the boom and these are offset. I have two steps at the top of the mast and these are opposite each other. I use a climbing harness and carry some sewn runners with carabiners. I climb to where I need to be and clip in, freeing up hands to work without hanging on. Since a lot of work is at the top, the steps really help as I swing around the mast and they do give you a way to let your groin take a break from the climbing harness. The great thing about the steps is the speed of getting up and down. If you have ever gone to the top and had everything you needed to complete the job you are a far better sailor than I am. With the steps I routinely run up and down with no issue, getting that extra part or the other screwdriver.
If I am working at a lower level on the mast or at the spreaders and need to get out to the ends to inspect or repair, I run up a halyard with a tail rope attached. Hoist the halyard shackle to the level you want to clip in and loosely tie off the tail rope. Once at the spreaders, I clip in and can now make big swings to either side for work on the spreaders.
One time while sailing I had a wild sheet get hung on one of the lower steps but as a potential problem area it’s pretty inconsequential. I have to say that I don’t like fixed mast steps at all-too many potential issues to ever have them on a boat.
I have used almost every possible combination of gear over the years and found the gear that works for me. I have climbed bald masts that had no halyards and the only way up was to skinny up with some runners tied around the mast with prusiks. I have also used the finest, fanciest sets of blocks and tackle. It all gets you there. I must add that I have done a fair amount of mountaineering so fear of heights is not much of an issue. I have been called a fool for free climbing a mast or even using a single halyard for support. But I have been much, much higher on a rock face where I rely on a single line and a little chock jammed in a crack in dubious rock, so I don’t get too shook up about climbing on one good halyard that will arrest a fall ten times greater than my body weight.
Figure out what works for you and don’t spend big bucks in the beginning because you will probably have it wrong, at least a little wrong, and will want to change some of your methods and equipment as you progress. Glad you are willing to climb, there are a lot of sailors who never will and it’s an important skill set to have.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 08:37
|
#23
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Up the mast, looking for clean wind.
Boat: Currently Shopping, & Heavily in LUST!
Posts: 5,629
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
Guys, & Dockhead, my apoligies for being jaded at the moment. It's not wholely the fault of this thread, or those in it. And if my comments are too "off", then suffer them to censure.
That said, I'll try & field some of this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead
This sounds very interesting indeed, but I can't quite picture it. Maybe you could draw? I suspect that this is something greatly superior to what I'm doing, and I'd like to try to imitate it. Might be useful to the OP as well.
I guess you've got it rigged as single purchase, with one end belayed to your harness and the other end in a rappel device. But how do you rig the ratchet block? Do you just haul it up from the end of the halyard, or tie it in to the middle so that you can belay the halyard at the base of the mast? And why a ratchet block?
|
The primary (6:1) is little more complicated than pictured in this http://www.harken.com/content.aspx?id=3893 diagram. Albeit I have a different set of blocks, & everything's safety wired shut. And anywhere I can manage it, I add safety lines. Even if but some high end Spectra. Such that there's as much DIY protection as possible. To include the totally seperated second line & block mentioned.
Sadly, there's not much in print aimed at recreational sailors going aloft. So most of what there is gets passed down by word of mouth. Usually with good reasons behind such "rules". At least initially. But often the "why" behind them gets dropped somewhere along the way fairly quickly, followed by the (safety) practice itself.
For example, "the why" behind tying in when going aloft on a rope halyard, despite their being a "strong" splice, & a stout piece of hardware in the halyard's end. Rarely does this get accepted by neophytes, & even less so barring an in depth explanation about the (heretofore unknown) issues.
And while I could yet pen text on the topic 2pgs+ long explaining why it's best to tie in, vs. shackling one's harness directly to a spliced eye. Or opposing using the shackle spliced to that eye itself. Yet, even if my comments, & arguments prove to be irrefutable on paper, once ego's get involved, logic then is the 1st casualty. So... that's the case with most things. Thus, often, until the student is ready to learn, the teacher is wasting his time just by showing up. And is actually fueling the fire against himself.
To modify the metaphor: "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear".
I've lost track of how many times I've had this exact conversation about the hows & how not to's re; going aloft, on CF alone. Including multiple times with the same folks. So sometimes the topic becomes one that I leave to "the student" to look it up, & figure it out via experience on their own.
I hate to sound as if I'm some grumpy entity sitting upon a mountain of wisdom, dispensing it lie some fickle diety. But at times I've just got other things to spend my energy on that take priority. Vs. being yelled at by those in the wrong, who are often cognizant of such, but who (laughably) wish to (failingly attempt) to retain face.
Particularly when by this point, it's apparent to most that I don't dispense BS passed off as knowledge, nor advise folks on matters about which I know little about.
Yet when I, & 3rd party studies, show something to be fact, it still gets attacked on here all the time. And it's gotten more than a little old the last week or so, unfortunately.
__________________
The Uncommon Thing, The Hard Thing, The Important Thing (in Life): Making Promises to Yourself, And Keeping Them.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 09:59
|
#24
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: East shore Mobile Bay AL
Boat: ODAY 28
Posts: 425
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I use the top climber,
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 10:20
|
#25
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: Reno / Bodega Harbor
Boat: Bruce Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 303
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I use a climbing harness with grigri on kernmantle rope for safety while climbing the mast steps. I'm too old to just use an ascender.
__________________
Rick
S/V Blind Faith
Bodega Bay, CA USA
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 10:22
|
#26
|
Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ashore in So Calif.
Boat: No more boat (my medical, not the boat's)
Posts: 1,453
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I've seen mast steps that were so high they were accessible only reasonably via harness or chair. I did not see them in use, but I suppose it provided options once you were there..
__________________
"Old California"
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 10:22
|
#27
|
Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Michigan
Boat: Morgan 381 38 feet
Posts: 85
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
Arborist harness. I'm an arborist and look in the catalog for Sherril Tree for all kinds of harnesses and rope climbing devices. Many arborist harnesses are a hybrid with a rigid seat to sit in. I climb with a friction knot and foot ascender. You get to the top and simply lower yourself back down with your friction knot. I also use an adjustable arborist lanyard for a safety line so I'm always the right distance from the life lines when moving around on the deck.
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 10:48
|
#28
|
Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Surrey, B.C. Canada
Boat: Passage 24/30 Cutter
Posts: 683
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCoys
Which do you prefer for climbing your mast, and why?
I was looking at a Bosuns chair, but a friend said he prefers a climbing harness because it gives him more freedom of movement. And tonight I discovered mast ladders.
Most of the solo apparatus that I am finding looks entirely to fumbly for me. Is there some kind of pulley system that can be used?
I want to learn how to climb my own mast instead of hiring someone to do it.
|
For a small boat such as yours, why not do as I did. Install a Tabernacle, work in comfort while staying safe on deck?
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 10:57
|
#29
|
Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Marquesas Islands
Boat: Nauticat 43
Posts: 402
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
I would think a bosun's chair plus a climbing harness combines some complementary features. I hadn't heard of an arborist harness, but if you get a climbing harness, look into trad climbing harnesses. They have wider support bands and more padding compared to the sport versions. If you have someone pulling you up (or, preferably winching you up), then you need less gear than if you self-ascend. I don't know the quality of a halyard shackle for supporting you, but you could make a bowline-on-a-bight or figure 8-on-a-bight on the halyard and couple the halyard to your harness with a caribiner. Get a high quality caribiner with a feature like screw-type locking. In any case, always remember to avoid metal on metal with a caribiner. If you self-ascend, you need the harness, two slings (e.g. 24 inches and 48 inches), a multi-purpose ascender (grabbing the rope at the lower point; used as a settled vertical point on which you can put your full weight; attached by a caribiner to the shorter sling and by another caribiner to your harness), and a right (or left) hand ascender (grabbing the rope at the higher point; used to pull yourself up; attached by a caribiner to the longer sling and by another caribiner to your harness; the RH ascender will have another caribiner at its top around the halyard). Remember to bring the camera up.
__________________
"If you don't know where you're going, you might wind up somewhere else." Yogi Berra
|
|
|
28-03-2017, 11:16
|
#30
|
Marine Service Provider
Join Date: May 2012
Location: New Orleans
Boat: We have a problem... A serious addiction issue.
Posts: 3,974
|
Re: Chair, Harness, or Ladder?
You could t get me to go up a mast with just a bosun's chair for any amount of money. They are grotesquely unsafe for the purpose, combined with a harness they make life more comfortable.
I haven't used an arborist seat, and my days of climbing masts regularly are probably over, but it would certainly be something I would consider instead of just a harness.
Brion Toss also sells a harness specifically designed for Riggers. It has massive padding and much larger leg webbing to make it comfortable to hang in. Again for regular trips I would consider this as well.
But if you are just going up once a year I will save the money and keep using my REI on sale special.
__________________
Greg
- If animals weren't meant to be eaten then they wouldn't be made of food.
|
|
|
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Rate This Thread |
Linear Mode
|
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
Advertise Here
Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Vendor Spotlight |
|
|
|
|
|