Captain/Owner Sleeping at the Helm

[BlackHeron]

On our Volvo-Penta if the transmission is engaged into reverse while sailing with the motor off it is nearly impossible to shift back into neutral unless speeds are less than about 3.knots.

If it is necessary to start the engine then it must be started in reverse gear or boat speed must be reduced below this threshold and it shifts into neutral with a sickening clunk and a lot of force on the lever at over about a knot or so.

Bad on the transmission, as well as the engine when started in reverse. The manual states to leave in neutral.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by BlackHeron

On our Volvo-Penta if the transmission is engaged into reverse while sailing with the motor off it is nearly impossible to shift back into neutral unless speeds are less than about 3.knots.

If it is necessary to start the engine then it must be started in reverse gear or boat speed must be reduced below this threshold and it shifts into neutral with a sickening clunk and a lot of force on the lever at over about a knot or so.

Bad on the transmission, as well as the engine when started in reverse. The manual states to leave in neutral.

And apart from that locking a fixed prop slows the boat! If a folding prop is fitted then stopping the engine while in reverse encourages the prop to fold and the neutral is the go.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by Uncle Bob

And apart from that locking a fixed prop slows the boat! If a folding prop is fitted then stopping the engine while in reverse encourages the prop to fold and the neutral is the go.

You sure about that?

Think about trying to compare the drag of a 10" diameter prop and a 10" diameter solid disk, the windmilling prop will have even more drag than the disk since it extracts energy from the entire area, compared to the disk where water will just move around it.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by NorthernMac

You sure about that?

Think about trying to compare the drag of a 10" diameter prop and a 10" diameter solid disk, the windmilling prop will have even more drag than the disk since it extracts energy from the entire area, compared to the disk where water will just move around it.

Not this one again

A free turning prop has less resistance than a locked fixed prop.

It's been thrashed to death in countless previous threads.

Google "site:cruisersforum.com fixed or freewheeling prop" for several days worth of entertainment

You'll see lots of separate threads going back 15 years or so rehashing all the same invalid arguments about dragging disks, comparisons to aircraft propellers, helicopter auto-rotation etc etc.

You will also find that every thread eventually contains the actual science and the results of empirical research and comes to the conclusion above.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not this one again

A free turning prop has less resistance than a locked fixed prop.

It's been thrashed to death in countless previous threads.

Google "site:cruisersforum.com fixed or freewheeling prop" for several days worth of entertainment

You'll see lots of separate threads going back 15 years or so rehashing all the same invalid arguments about dragging disks, comparisons to aircraft propellers, helicopter auto-rotation etc etc.

You will also find that every thread eventually contains the actual science and the results of empirical research and comes to the conclusion above.

Thank you Stu.

[atoll]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not this one again

A free turning prop has less resistance than a locked fixed prop.

It's been thrashed to death in countless previous threads.

Google "site:cruisersforum.com fixed or freewheeling prop" for several days worth of entertainment

You'll see lots of separate threads going back 15 years or so rehashing all the same invalid arguments about dragging disks, comparisons to aircraft propellers, helicopter auto-rotation etc etc.

You will also find that every thread eventually contains the actual science and the results of empirical research and comes to the conclusion above.

we just lift our propellor and drive leg out the water

[RaymondR]

Maybe he was using the noisy rumbling to try to keep himself awake??

[taxwizz]

Originally Posted by Phisher

Anyways, I slept in the cockpit on all overnighters from that point forward. Safety of the crew is priority! When I do overnight passeges on Salty Dreams. I always sleep in the cockpit. Just in case..

Good idea.
That way you are on deck when you hit the rocks.

[thruska]

Originally Posted by Phisher

I recently crewed on a catamaran from St. Thomas to Ft. Lauderdale. We did a staight shot St. Thomas to Turks and Caicos. I took the Midnight to 4 am watch, which followed the boat owner. On 2 different occasions I show up at the helm for my watch and would have to wake up the boat owner. Each time I woke him he acted as if everything was fine, he would mumble that we are on the magenta line and on course. Whatever sleepy head were my thoughts. This man would not listen to me about several instances and situations. One being the terrible vibration undersail. I questioned why he did not engege the transmissions to the reverse position to stop the vibration. He said that the boat has had that vibration since new (2016 Lagoon 45) and several captains had noted in there logs.(Charter Boat) The vibration was all to obvious that the props were the cause. So I engaged the trannys into reverse BOOM! vibrations gone. I could tell the owner was a little insensed by my observation being correct. Now,how do we deal with know it all captains? Should I have informed the rest of the crew, one being his green wife, about Captain Sleepys issue of falling asleep on watch?

Sleepy people on watch is accident waiting to happen.
I towed RA out of Oriental, cap greer fell asleep and te boned our columbia. .He had no insurance and o responsibility.
Seatow messed up our boat on a soft grounding. Long story insurance companies are not my best friends. Always arguing with them with their shenanigans.

[Mike Banks]

Log every incident and get the hell off the vessel at the next port of call.

[DEAN2140]

Some years ago there was an ocean race to Ensanada from Newport. Boats were given a cruising allowance which permitted a defined amount of engine hours. A Hunter with five crew hit the rocks on an island and all perished. A GPS track showed the Hunter had traveled in a straight line directly into the rocks. Most likely the boat was on autopilot and the man on watch had fallen asleep.

No one has to permit a "captain" to operate the boat in a clearly unsafe manner, regardless of your status. Life is too short.

[NorthernMac]

Originally Posted by StuM

Not this one again

A free turning prop has less resistance than a locked fixed prop.

It's been thrashed to death in countless previous threads.

Google "site:cruisersforum.com fixed or freewheeling prop" for several days worth of entertainment

You'll see lots of separate threads going back 15 years or so rehashing all the same invalid arguments about dragging disks, comparisons to aircraft propellers, helicopter auto-rotation etc etc.

You will also find that every thread eventually contains the actual science and the results of empirical research and comes to the conclusion above.

It's odd, in the aviation world this isn't a debate, it's a accepted fact that windmilling is more drag. Next time I'm out I'll do a little experiment, ether way don't feel like ty noise, or lack of cooling water in the dripless or spinning that much for ether little or a negative

[robert sailor]

Well if your sailing with a folder you have to select reverse to get it to fold. Once folded there is no load on the transmission nor is it difficult to shift to neutral at any speed. Fixed blades are different. Yes a fixed blade turning is less drag than if it’s locked. Always had difficulty with that as I’m a pilot and if you lose an engine you need to feather the prop quickly because the wind milling prop has so much drag. As far as telling the skipper what to do...usually not wise. Your best to ask questions to make a point. Yes it’s not as safe if a watch has a nap but unless your close to shore it’s probably not huge...solo sailors sleep lots. Im not suggesting it’s ok but it may not be worth getting into a big disagreement over.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by StuM

So you think it was a good idea to slow the boat and risked potential damage to the engines by locking the props contrary to the skippers wishes and the manufacturer's instructions?



Now how do we deal with know it all crew?


Advisory Number: MSA08-003:

DATE February 8, 2008 Dealers and OEMs
TO: All Marine Distributors
SUBJECT: Gear in Neutral While Sailing All MODELS:

All Sailboat Engines

We continue to get questions regarding the correct gear position while sailing with the engine OFF. This advisory is issued as a reminder; Yanmar requires that if sailing with the engine OFF (not running) the transmission shifter must be in the neutral position or internal damage to the gear or sail-drive will result. This damage will not be covered by Yanmar’s Limited Warranty. Please instruct customers and dealers who deliver the sailboat to the customer, of the correct (Neutral) position for the marine gear while sailing.

Yep - that is what is recommended on my engine/transmission combination. It is a bit more noisy but gotta follow the recs.

[Kelkara]

Originally Posted by robert sailor

Fixed blades are different. Yes a fixed blade turning is less drag than if it’s locked. Always had difficulty with that as I’m a pilot and if you lose an engine you need to feather the prop quickly because the wind milling prop has so much drag.

But ... if you're feathering the prop it isn't fixed blade ... do planes even have the mechanicals to stop a prop without feathering?