Cabin Heat?

[ssullivan]

Jentine, just wondering... With all due respect...

We have had several complaints in our marina directed toward people with diesel heaters.

Espar, etc... are quite noisy. They make a sound like a small jet engine.

They have even moved a couple of the people with them.

In fact, I'm at my nav station, and can hear one 2 boats away right now.??

[Alan Wheeler]

Yeah noisy is right. They are noisy on the outside of the boat. They would drive me nuts if I had one. I would have thought they would have a better fan system than a bilge blower type design. They are just as loud as those Bilge blowers. People with wind chargers have nothing to worry about when compared to those heaters.

[SG]

We have had Espars on both our current (7 seasons) and prior boat (11 seasons).

The Espars worked very well. The noise of the blower system is a function of a number of variables --

i) Size of ducts and
ii ) optimizing the amp draw vs. efficiency; and
iii) your sensitivity.

I find it comforting to know when it goes on and when it doesn't.

It really didn't bother us too much -- the warmth from the units (which is what we wanted) really does and did the job.

We are in the Chesapeake in the winters. The units both workand worked fine in temperatures in the upper twenties at night and thirties during the day.

I think you have to say "compared" to what. If you're in a marina, then you could get by with electric space heaters which would be somewhat quieter -- but the fan powered units really are about as noisy inside.

One point that has been ignored, as electric space heaters have been mentioned is the draw in contrast to the heat produced. In a number of harbors I have been in, the shorepower could not handle a big enough heater to make our boat comfortable. Our current harbor provides 20 amp service. THe average small space heater, that is not sufficient to heat the whole boat, draws 1500 watts. That is 13.5 amps AC. It does not leave enough for a second unit, and barely leaves enough for the water heater, and smart charger.

[CaptainK]

That's not alot to work with, Kai.

Why is the marina so cheap on providing little power? Or is it just simply set up that way?

This harbor was built along time ago, and set up for the commercial boats. This seems to fit their needs just fine, so it has not been changed. Paradise Cay in Marin County only has 15 amps. Most modern boats are set up for 30 amps. I have no idea why harbors do not upgrade to this standard. With the exception of running a heater, 20 amps does seem to work, but we do not have allot of the big power drains, and are set up for the capacity of our inverter (2500 watts). We do not use anything that requires more than this.

[CaptainK]

Sounds like the marina owners are a bunch of cheapskates. And the rates they charge. They could afford to upgrade higher?

Money DOES make the world go round

[CaptainK]

Yeah, Kai.

Unfortunately that's one of the main reasons why I want to leave this stinking damn country sometimes. Because of all the damn greedy bastards out there!!

[roverhi]

Electric heaters make water. Actually they don't make water, just even one persons respiration is enough to coat the interior of a boat in film of water. Lived aboard for one winter in Norfolk with two small electric heaters. Never warm for 3 months and so much condensation I thought the boat had done a Titanic. Nearly ruined the cushions with moisture. Luckily it was too cold for mold to grow.

Try the below thread for a discussion of the various heaters:
http://www.tartanowners.org/phorum/r...095#reply_1095

Aloha
Peter O.

[CaptainK]

Yes condensation.

Condensation can do some damage to wood. Cause mold to grow onboard. It could cause hidden damage to unaccessable places aboard a boat.

Recommend a can of dissacant. To bring the moisture content down. It works great!!

[ssullivan]

Also, with electric - just to round out some more features - it can get very expensive. I have a friend on the dock here who uses 2 standard 1500 watt space heaters. He is cold all the time and still has a $250 electric bill to pay this month. OUCH.

But... these are only really an advantage if you are constantly plugged into shore power. Not sure if the original poster would be at the dock 100% of the time he watned to use heat?

[Alan Wheeler]

CaptK, if you want to leave to get away from greedy ones, you'll have to find your own private wee island out there somewhere. Unfortunately, it ain't JUST your country they are in.
And then, if you find the perfect Island, chances are, you'll have a large floatilla following you. Then you will have to charge for building a marina so as they don't scatter themselves all around your island and spoil the view from your private wee beach you have. Then you suddenly find they dump all their rubbish at the head of the marina for you to bury for them, so you charge for costs incured. Then they want to hook up to your wee genset you got to watch TV on and keep the beer cool, so you have to charge for the cost of the power. Hmmm, watercharge because you managed to harvest a wee sfresh water stream. By now you are exhausted and things aren't happening fast enough for the "guests" so you hire someone to do the work. Hey you want to sit under the shade of a tree on the beach after all. But there is another charge. After awhile, people start to complain because there is some greedy barstard sitting under the shade of a tree doing nothing all day at the expense of them as they pay a premuim for sitting in a Marina that surely must be free lunch, cause after all, it's just a hole in the water collecting huge amounts of money each month. For what??? they all say.
Hey, I do agree though, what marinas charge for birthage is plain criminal in most parts. But here in NZ, it isn't JUST the marina that charges an arm and a leg. The local area Governments for each province here in NZ, charge for the area of sea bed you take up. I think that is just plain wrong and greedy. Here in Marlborough, we have a company called Port Marlborough that own the marinas. So they charge us for the birthage, which covers the power, water, birth etc, but plus a profit. The Marlborough district council charge Port Marlborough a lease, etc etc. BUT!! Here is the part I think is wrong. The Marlborough Council ALSO OWN the Port Marlborough. So they also get all the profits of the Port Authority, PLUS CHARGE the Port Authority. So they essentially double dip. Now that is wrong in my books. Ahh, but whadda ya do. You can't complain when there is a waiting list for people wanting to use the marina.

[CaptainK]

Yeah Wheels.

Like that saying goes. "Who says life is fair?"

Yeah, I suppose you're right about how the owner/s charge things. And the F-ing government. Always sticking their noses were it doesn't belong.

But, that French saying, life goes on. I can not spell it, buy typing it out. But, I can verbally say it like they can.

Yeah. I have thought about a island. But, I wouldn't want a huge number following me. I don't really like large crowds. And I rather be left alone. Except for a select few?

Sean you make a good point. Not all harbors include electricity in their standard charge. Ours does, but then again, how much electricity can you use with a 20 amp service?
As for harbors and fees, I think there was another thread on this, and yes, we all know they have us by the cajones, but not much choice in the matter. What gets me steamed is the fees going up faster than inflation, and the services going down. That seems unfair, but what do I know.
Electric heaters do cause condensation, and in my experience, so do propane. I believe I remember Sean saying that wood does as well, but in my experience, wood heat dries things out. Maybe I have more air leaks than most For convenience, portable electric heaters are cheap, simple, and easy to use, but for long term, permanent installation, I would go with wood. For a smaller boat with limited bulkheads, and a more sleek interior, I would go with propane. It will cost more to run, but it is simple, and cheap to install. It does produce good heat, and takes up little space. Just expect to refill your tanks about once a week or more.