CA tax aggravation - vessel on east coast

[Ranthra]

In 2017 I purchased a vessel in my home state of NC. The vessel had previously been in California, but was shipped to NC by the previous owner before to be sold by a local yacht broker. The vessel was USCG documented with CA as a hailing port. When I documented in my name, I did not change the hailing port. We chose to leave it as a tribute of sorts to the unique history of the boat. Of coarse, the CG does not regulate the hailing port selection, and it in no way implies taxation authority.



This year, I received a tax bill from CA. I responded with their tax exempt request form, along with a copy of my Bill of Sale from a NC based yacht broker, and my NC registration. Recently, I was notified that CA considered this inadequate, and they are now demanding: Notarized delivery documentation, mooring contracts and invoices for the entire period since my purchase, proof of insurance, all repair / maintenance invoices, plus all other unspecified documentation available.


I did get a copy of the boatyard invoice from when the vessel was taken off the trailer and launched. I will provide that, but other transit documentation is outside of my access or responsibility. I have drafted my response stating that the other information requested is unreasonable and intrusive, and will not be provided.


Anyone else deal with this kind of aggressive crap from CA ? Any suggestions or stories of your dealings with similar situations would be appreciated.


I have since sanded the CA hailing port off of the vessel. I no longer have any desire to maintain the connection to the boat's past.

[Larry Florida]

CA has the power to extract money from your bank account without trial. Stay with it until it's resolved.

[dwedeking2]

Originally Posted by Larry Florida

CA has the power to extract money from your bank account without trial. Stay with it until it's resolved.

This needs to be stressed. Any bank that has any connection to California (meaning most of the big ones) will allow the state to take money out of your account.



California is to be avoided even as a mention on paperwork anywhere (as a former resident their tax collection actions can be and usually are draconian).

[a64pilot]

The astonishing thing to me is the burden of proof.
I went through one year of this with my little boat, gave them proof the boat was never in Ga etc. finally they said if I could prove I paid Fl taxes, they would not tax me, cause you have to pay your taxes they said.
I could have won it with a Laywer of course, but that would have cost more than the taxes, so I just paid them, and sold the boat.

[Ranthra]

That is my concern - that they could / will seize money from my bank account. I'm sure the account has been flagged and I am getting the worst of what they offer. When I initially called, they insisted I complete their form in full and mail it. Box 1 on the form asks for the purchase price. I consider that none of their business and irrelevant since the vessel has never been in or near CA during my association with this boat. When I submitted the form, I marked that box NA, and also blacked out the price from the Bill of Sale.


The things requested seem like nothing more than harassment to get someone to just pay them to make it stop. I cannot get a notarized statement from the seller that i never met for something he did 3 years ago. My dockage lease is about me and only vaguely references the boat. Monthly statements just say "slip rental". My insurance also doesn't offer solid proof, just where I live and which marina is listed as a payee for liability.

[Paul L]

Send them a mass of supporting documentation. I copied every page of the boat Log for the year in question, as well as a bunch of supporting receipts. They dropped their request.

[Pitchondesign]

As stated by others, you have to resolve this. I bought my boat in Florida, paid Florida sales tax, used my boat outside of California for the required 12 months, had insurance, and bank statements showing where I used the boat. The USCG registration showed California. The document package was over 40 pages. They left me alone after that, but never acknowledged I didn't owe California tax. Use every document you have, this is important. What California does is absolutely Draconian, but you will never win against them without the documents.

[Cheechako]

Get a lawyer to send them a cease and desist letter. Then take them to small claims court locally for the legal costs if you can.

[dannc]

Other posts have provided good information. However, if you search this forum, you will find plenty of other conversations on how to inform the CA tax office that your boat is not taxable by them.

Other discussions show that this is a major pain in the a....s but you have to do it since the CA tax officials will NOT let this go. You have to provide them the information or they will stay after you

When I documented in my name, I did not change the hailing port. We chose to leave it as a tribute of sorts to the unique history of the boat. Of coarse, the CG does not regulate the hailing port selection, and it in no way implies taxation authority.

Leaving you hailing port in CA is how the CA tax officials have tracked down the boat. You need to change the hailing port in your boat documentation. If you do not change the hailing port they are going to keep sending you bills.

Good Luck,
Dan

[Dave22q]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

The astonishing thing to me is the burden of proof.
I went through one year of this with my little boat, gave them proof the boat was never in Ga etc. finally they said if I could prove I paid Fl taxes, they would not tax me, cause you have to pay your taxes they said.
I could have won it with a Laywer of course, but that would have cost more than the taxes, so as just paid them, and sold the boat.

Seems to me that if you really paid sales tax and registered in Florida, proof of same should be easy. If you live in a state it is only reasonable for them to assume you owe them sales tax unless you paid elsewhere.

[Ferrari]

It’s completely your responsibility to prove the vessel is “permanently” out of Ca.
Antagonizing bureocrats with indignant rhetoric will usually prove counter productive.
F

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Paul L

Send them a mass of supporting documentation. I copied every page of the boat Log for the year in question, as well as a bunch of supporting receipts. They dropped their request.

I moved my boat from CA to Canada. I just sent them receipts from the trip up the coast and my marina agreement. They asked again the next year, I sent them copies of the same stuff. Done. Don't make this more than it needs to be. Are they a PITA? You betcha. But just be patient, and send them receipts, receipts, receipts, with a NICE letter explaining the details.

[guyrj33]

I have a similar story from Massachusetts, 5 years after buying the boat and paying sales tax at the Massachusetts DOR office they demanded the sales tax, interest and penalties.
They would not accept my multi-part copy of their form as proof of payment only the original. Luckily the dealer had the original on file.

We should do everything we can to prevent our governments assuming power they have not been granted.

[Tetepare]

I went through this with NY.


Send a letter to the NC attorney general, cc: California and ask the AG to prosecute that CA officer (person, not location or entity) for extortion.


If you are a BoatUS member, copy them and ask them to help.




My NY problems suddenly when away when I did that.

[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Dave22q

Seems to me that if you really paid sales tax and registered in Florida, proof of same should be easy. If you live in a state it is only reasonable for them to assume you owe them sales tax unless you paid elsewhere.

Sales tax wasn’t the issue, it was personal property tax.
Ga law is very plain and easy to read, it says where the boat is for more than 180 days in a year is where the tax is owed. I had proof that the Boat spend the entire year in the Navy Base Marina in Panama City Fl.
They wanted to see something that doesn’t exist, a Fl personal property tax bill for the boat. They would accept nothing else.
Tax amount was maybe a couple of hundred dollars max, so I paid them to get it over with.
It is more complex than its worth getting into here, point is two things.
1. They will not stop
2. They can ruin your day, do all kinds of bad things to you financially, run up fees etc way beyond the original tax. It’s a money making machine is all it is.