Buying a donated boat

[NoQuarter79]

We purchased our boat about a month ago from a non-profit organization site unseen. We were very excited at the time and there are a few major questions that we had forgotten to ask. Now we are aboard the boat, and we were informed by a neighbor who had sailed the boat that the motor hadn't been ran in 5 years. We were checking it out a little bit and messing with the raw water thru-hull valve when the handle broke off and the gear that turned the valve got all chewed up. Of course we need to change some filters and whatnot, but we messaged the donation organization to ask for the previous owners contact information to see if they had any issues with the engine and she informed us that the donor told her there was nothing wrong with it. To me, there is quite a big difference in "nothing wrong" and "had been sitting untouched for 5 years."

Our beef is not with the non-profit. I will just be upset if the donor hadn't been 100% truthful when donating the boat. I don't even think the non-profit had seen the boat for themselves when we snagged it up, so they only knew what the donor had told them.

We're not looking to weasel a lawsuit, we just want to know if there are any steps, if any at all, we could take in this situation? We were under the impression it was ready to go, and now after investing a third of our life saving into purchasing the boat, it appears the remaining two-thirds of our savings will go into getting it in running order.

[Shrew]

Did you have the vessel surveyed prior to purchase?

I would make the assumption that distressed boats are being donated to non-profits. I would then assume at least 50% of the purchase price would go into repairs and upgrades.

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

We purchased our boat about a month ago from a non-profit organization site unseen.
.................................................. ........

, we just want to know if there are any steps, if any at all, we could take in this situation?

Gee you brought a donated boat (ie a boat someone wanted to get rid of) sight unseen and you are surprised there are problems with it. And I'm sure you didn't get a survey

You aren't going like my advise, but I bet in the long run your best course of action is to donate it back.

[vjm]

You can consult a lawyer, but you need to read the disclaimers that usually accompany these kinds of sales and the exact language used in the ad. My bet is that there is a lot of "nonprofit makes no representations or guarantees", "all info is per seller and is not guaranteed", etc.

If that is so, I can't imagine any recourse. But, of course, check with a lawyer if you want to. It can certainly depend on the particular wording of the ad. Most nonprofits doing this are well aware of how to CYA.

[TurninTurtle]

Generally these are "as-is where-is" which means that there is absolutely no warranty that it will even float.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

We purchased our boat about a month ago from a non-profit organization site unseen. We were very excited at the time and there are a few major questions that we had forgotten to ask. Now we are aboard the boat, and we were informed by a neighbor who had sailed the boat that the motor hadn't been ran in 5 years. We were checking it out a little bit and messing with the raw water thru-hull valve when the handle broke off and the gear that turned the valve got all chewed up. Of course we need to change some filters and whatnot, but we messaged the donation organization to ask for the previous owners contact information to see if they had any issues with the engine and she informed us that the donor told her there was nothing wrong with it. To me, there is quite a big difference in "nothing wrong" and "had been sitting untouched for 5 years."

Our beef is not with the non-profit. I will just be upset if the donor hadn't been 100% truthful when donating the boat. I don't even think the non-profit had seen the boat for themselves when we snagged it up, so they only knew what the donor had told them.

We're not looking to weasel a lawsuit, we just want to know if there are any steps, if any at all, we could take in this situation? We were under the impression it was ready to go, and now after investing a third of our life saving into purchasing the boat, it appears the remaining two-thirds of our savings will go into getting it in running order.

OK, look, we'll try to help here.

There is absolutely no such thing, categorically, as a boat with "nothing wrong with it". Does not exist! Not even a new one! That's why it's really important to have a good survey done before ever buying anything that floats, just to start out with a decent list of what needs fixing and improving.

An old boat which has not been used in a few years is just a project, I'm afraid, and you'll need to face that. I bad sea cock is going to be just the very tip of the ice berg. If you end up with a list of less than three or four pages of things to do -- count yourself lucky.

My advice is to get a survey done now -- better late than never. If the result is disastrous -- then try to rescind the sale and give the boat back. If the result is reasonable, then roll your sleeves up and start tackling it. Do the work yourself -- that will not only save you money, but will also get you familiar with your boat and her systems. This learning process is essential to happy boat ownership.

Get to know other sailors with similar boats and ask for advice. Ask for advice on here -- there is a huge wealth of knowledge here, and people will help you figure out how to fix this or that broken system much more cheaply and more efficiently than you could otherwise.

How to evaluate whether the survey is disastrous? Well if the engine doesn't run and doesn't look easily salvageable, then many old boats are not worth repowering. Other big ticket items are sails, rigging, teak deck, any structural problems. You will definitely have to replace all the electronics, so you won't care much about that. Your broken sea cock is par for the course -- if the boat is fairly old and hasn't been used in five years, you will in all likelihood need to replace all of them (unless they are Blakes or the like and can be reground).

When I bought my present boat in 2009, she was only 8 years old and hardly used, with 160 hours on the generator, and surveyed excellently. But after I started using her, one thing after another failed, and even now I still spend at least $10k -- $20k every year on different replacements and upgrades, and sometimes more (like when I replaced my sails last year). If your boat is smaller, it might be cheaper, but you can't just buy any boat and just sail away. Cruising sailboats are continuous projects. There is a pithy and all too true saying that the definition of cruising is "boat repair in exotic places".

[Steadman Uhlich]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

OK, look, we'll try to help here.

There is absolutely no such thing, categorically, as a boat with "nothing wrong with it". Does not exist! Not even a new one! That's why it's really important to have a good survey done before ever buying anything that floats, just to start out with a decent list of what needs fixing and improving.

An old boat which has not been used in a few years is just a project, I'm afraid, and you'll need to face that. I bad sea cock is going to be just the very tip of the ice berg. If you end up with a list of less than three or four pages of things to do -- count yourself lucky.

My advice is to get a survey done now -- better late than never. If the result is disastrous -- then try to rescind the sale and give the boat back. If the result is reasonable, then roll your sleeves up and start tackling it. Do the work yourself -- that will not only save you money, but will also get you familiar with your boat and her systems. This learning process is essential to happy boat ownership.

Get to know other sailors with similar boats and ask for advice. Ask for advice on here -- there is a huge wealth of knowledge here, and people will help you figure out how to fix this or that broken system much more cheaply and more efficiently than you could otherwise.

How to evaluate whether the survey is disastrous? Well if the engine doesn't run and doesn't look easily salvageable, then many old boats are not worth repowering. Other big ticket items are sails, rigging, teak deck, any structural problems. You will definitely have to replace all the electronics, so you won't care much about that. Your broken sea cock is par for the course -- if the boat is fairly old and hasn't been used in five years, you will in all likelihood need to replace all of them (unless they are Blakes or the like and can be reground).

When I bought my present boat in 2009, she was only 8 years old and hardly used, with 160 hours on the generator, and surveyed excellently. But after I started using her, one thing after another failed, and even now I still spend at least $10k -- $20k every year on different replacements and upgrades, and sometimes more (like when I replaced my sails last year). If your boat is smaller, it might be cheaper, but you can't just buy any boat and just sail away. Cruising sailboats are continuous projects. There is a pithy and all too true saying that the definition of cruising is "boat repair in exotic places".

Outstanding post and great advice!

[Cheechako]

Most donated boats have wording something like "owner says engine ran when last attempted" Which is a wide open statement. If the engine will turn with a wrench on the crankshaft you may be ok. Hard to say yet.
... and yes, very rare for an boat, even non donated ones , to be "ready to go". Sorry, but boating is at least 50% boat work.

[NoQuarter79]

It's a 1981 Watkins 27. We paid $1600 and a survey would probably be half that, and we just can't afford that. We are new to diesels. This is our first inboard, our first galley, our first head. A lot to learn and do with dwindling time and money.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

It's a 1981 Watkins 27. We paid $1600 and a survey would probably be half that, and we just can't afford that. We are new to diesels. This is our first inboard, our first galley, our first head. A lot to learn and do with dwindling time and money.

Oh, I see.

And the other 2/3 of your life savings are $3200.

OK, this will require a lot of hard work and creativity. In lieu of a survey, you will really need a knowledgeable friend to go through the boat and tell you if there's anything fatally wrong with it. There are many, many things which can't be fixed for $3200, so the risk of this is significant. Maybe someone on here who is in your area would lend a hand checking it out.

If it can't be put in order with the means you have at your disposal, then you will need to try to rescind the sale or donate the boat back.

If the hull is watertight and the rudder and steering gear are sound, you COULD just sail it without the engine, if the engine can't be fixed. Many people do that with boats that size; you can also mount a small outboard.

With enough elbow grease and ingenuity, amazing things can be done.

[Cheechako]

Originally Posted by NoQuarter79

It's a 1981 Watkins 27. We paid $1600 and a survey would probably be half that, and we just can't afford that. We are new to diesels. This is our first inboard, our first galley, our first head. A lot to learn and do with dwindling time and money.

Those are usually good boats. Helluva deal..... hopefully. Just find out if the engine will rotate and go from there. What engine?

[vjm]

Originally Posted by TurninTurtle

Generally these are "as-is where-is" which means that there is absolutely no warranty that it will even float.

This is usually absolutely true, but does not always apply if there was an affirmative misrepresentation. So "Owner says engine runs fine" means no grounds for redress, while "We tested the engine and it runs fine" would possibly give you some wiggle room.

I am guessing the latter statement is not what is in the ad. Charities are too smart for that.

[oldragbaggers]

Worst case scenario (engine-wise) if the engine is totally shot and you can't afford to replace or repair it, you could go, for the short term, with a used outboard. This boat is a bit heavier than a Catalina 27, but we operated one of those with an outboard. I have known people to operate 30' boats with an outboard when the resources for an inboard didn't exist. Thank Got it's a SAILboat. I wouldn't recommend an outboard for significant travel under power, and it isn't going to do you a lot of good in rough weather (but that usually means there's wind) but it could serve to get you in and out of the dock, not in rough weather, so that you can use your boat until more funds become available for repairs and upgrades.

**I just looked online and found several Watkins 27's advertised with gas outboards, so apparently it's do-able.

[oldragbaggers]

If you don't mind my asking, under what circumstances did you buy your boat? If it was from a charity like Boat Angel, on eBay, they have a quite lengthy as-is disclaimer in all of their postings that says explicitly that the only thing they guarantee is that the boat is "as is" period.. In that case I wouldn't imagine you would have any kind of redress. You said you didn't see the boat before hand, so just wondering.

[Don C L]

at $1600 that is not much of a loss if you want to donate it back. It will likely cost you much more than your remaining savings to get her in good shape. You could chalk it up to a lesson well-learned. Some of us have spent a lot more to learn that lesson!