Buying a boat with no experiance

[Auggie073]

Originally Posted by Chuck34

Absolutely, get a pre-purchase survey. Not cheap, but could potentially save you many thousand$ down the road. Sailing courses are good, but stick to the basics first…Boater safety class, followed up with a Seamanship class.
First things first…lock in a marina slip. Trying to live aboard a moored boat will be a major pain in the butt and will get real old real fast.

I've already taken a boater safety class, and we are looking to get a survey after we are more sure if we are going to buy this boat. The difficult part is that it is currently docked in a private slip in the owner's yard so we would not have anywhere to haul out to get it inspected.

[Auggie073]

Originally Posted by sail sfbay

If you need help send me me a PM and I can guide you out.

I sent you a PM

[Auggie073]

Also if anyone has a good recommendation for a surveyor in the area lmk

[Chuck34]

Originally Posted by Auggie073

Also if anyone has a good recommendation for a surveyor in the area lmk

Glad you came back to let us know what’s going on and happy you plan on a survey.
As a newbie, you may not know the typical boat buying process.
Step 1, a written purchase agreement, usually with a small deposit, including satisfactory survey and sea trial contingency. Step 2, survey with haul out and sea trial. Step 3, any unknown issues found during sea trial and survey, buyer and seller go back to the negotiating table to hammer out issues, either the seller fixes problems or gives a price concession or some combination of the 2. If buyer and seller can’t come to a mutual agreement, buyer walks and gets deposit back.

4 years ago, wife and I bought a very nice, 2001, cabin cruiser in very nice shape. Surveyor found issues (they alway do) and I gave the buyer a list of items I wanted fixed and money off the purchase price for me to fix additional, less pressing problems. Repairs made and price concessions saved me 3 X the cost of the survey. Money well spent.

[Ayb]

Originally Posted by Auggie073

I've already taken a boater safety class, and we are looking to get a survey after we are more sure if we are going to buy this boat. The difficult part is that it is currently docked in a private slip in the owner's yard so we would not have anywhere to haul out to get it inspected.

That's ok, the surveyor you pick will have a yard or two they'll prefer, inform the owner of your plans and then schedule the haul out, have the owner bring the boat there at the designated time. If possible go with the owner on that cruise to the boat yard and watch it get hauled out and then go through the boat with the surveyor.

[Sand crab]

I bought my $25,000 boat without a survey and have friends that purchased cheaper boats without on as well. If the seller has lots of receipts and pics about the repairs and maintenance then you might want to consider passing on a survey. I got full coverage for stated value over the phone from BoatUS. They are now Geico or is Progressive? Marinas don't care if it's fully insured they just usually want the liability clause. Liability is easier and cheaper. My marina and others nearby had a 12 days a month liveaboard clause. This gives boat owners a free pass to sleep occasionally on their boat. My friend plays the game and anchors out or doesn't sleep on the boat on the off days. The marinas keep track BTW.

[desodave]

One of our members is Boatpoker, who is a surveyor, and he regularly refers people in your position to read his Marine Survey 101;
http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/index.htm
Imo it's really worth a read for you. Best of luck with a potential purchase

[TrentePieds]

Auggie:

Desodave gave you a very excellent reference! Go read it :-)

One of my firm beliefs is that you must NEVER, EVER hire a "professional" to do a job for you UNLESS you know as much about the task at hand as he does! It is essential that you do, so that you can direct, monitor and supervise him appropriately.

It is axiomatic among "bean counters" that what a good accountant can do FOR you, he can also do TO you! Same goes for marine surveyors. Boatpoker is exceptional in having made Marine Survey 101 available to the likes of us, free and gratis!

TP

[Luxcat]

I have to agree with Cliveon. This may seem exciting, romantic, practical etc. But first, you will end up replacing nearly everything on the boat, slowly, over a period of time. Some on the schedule you set and some will have to be dealt with immediately. Marine parts prices and not like car parts. As an alternate residence this is a highly questionable choice. If you are prone to impulse decisions, maybe take a breather for a minute to re-consider. Having to "move it right away" is a pressure to decide that you don't need. It could be an interesting project boat if it is actually in very good condition, which is to say the current owner has already replaced a lot of parts as opposed to having just kept it clean and looking good. But having to live on it at the same time will not be exciting, romantic or practical. These words from the owner of a 36 year old boat.

[GrowleyMonster]

If you are getting the boat really cheap, a survey is a bit of a top heavy expense that you might consider foregoing, if you have friends who know about boats and can look her over. If you are paying much more than about $2k a survey is a little more important, including haulout. Over $10k I would DEFINITELY have a survey done. For insurance, a survey is awfully nice to have. Many insurers will insist on it, and insurance may be your biggest hurdle. Age of the boat is a factor. Lack of sailing experience, training, or USCG documents is a factor. There will maybe be other factors unique to your area.

If your boat will just be a dock queen, no big hurry, but you will eventually want to take some courses or at least get some time crewing for others. The biggest, most important thing is not how to actually make the boat go. You can figure that out in a couple of hours, with one of you steering or rope choking and the other reading aloud from "Sailing for Dummies". It is literally that simple to just make the boat go more or less where you want it to go. Won't be nothing pretty, and your skill and efficiency will have a lot of room for improvement over the next few years, but the actual sailing part is pretty straightforward. The big thing that you absolutely need, that is woefully overlooked by most newbies, is Rules of the Road. You really need a very strong and deep knowledge of the Rules and how to apply them in real life. A comprehensive knowledge of Rules will some day save your boat, someone else's boat, or LIVES. You are after all driving something weighing an awful lot more than a car, with NO BRAKES. Just picture it. Without knowing Rules, you are a menace to other vessels and people, and to yourselves and each other.

First aid, safety, and damage control are next in importance. Know how to keep your boat floating right side up and dry inside. Know how to prevent fires, and how to put them out if you didn't manage to prevent one. Know what to do when your shrouds or chainplates fail and your mast is in the water instead of sticking up in the air where it is supposed to be. Know how to steer if your rudder falls off or your steering chain or cable breaks or your tiller disintegrates. Know how and when to replace rigging. Know how to fix leaks both large and small. Know how to avoid accidents and injury. Know how to do common repairs on your own. You will be doing that a lot, if you expect to keep the boat seaworthy.

Finally, there is navigation and pilotage. Navigation is figuring out where you are and which way to go when you are out of sight of land or structures or bouys. Pilotage is figuring out where you are and which way to go when you are near land and have visual aids to assist you. Why are some bouys red, black, green, or yellow? Or striped? What are range lights, and what good are they? Where is the deep water? How far outside the channel can you go when there is a ship coming that is using up almost the whole channel? Are lighthouses just pretty things to look at? What can a lighthouse tell you? Are other features or buildings on land useful for determining your position? Can you read a chart and milk it for all the pertinent data that it contains? Learn pilotage and learn it well, and you will probably never run aground, or at least very seldom. Navigation is often misunderstood by new sailors who think all there is to it is turning on a chart plotter and following the arrows. Even if you always sail in sight of land, you need to know how to keep a DR plot. This is the most basic navigational skill and is essential to know. Next most important is how to do a compass check and determine your deviation, which varies with the boat and the boat's heading, and how to apply it and your variation to your magnetic compass heading to get the True heading. Or vice versa. Your compass is not much good if you don't know how far "off" it is, and it is, too. Shooting Sun, Moon, Planets, and Stars for a Latitude or for a Line Of Position, and advancing or retarding them to get a Celestial Fix, are things you can absorb a little at a time, as you see fit, as you have need. Your most basic rule of Navigation is to never rely on only one method of determining your position. The more, the better. GPS is wonderful. It is about 1000 times more accurate than you actually need. It is inexpensive and convenient, and you can learn all about it in just a few weeks, and sort of use it in a day. But it is not infallible or indestructible. One lightning strike can wipe out every piece of electronics on the boat that has a transistor or an IC in it. China or Russia could disrupt the GPS system. You could lose your engine and if you have no wind generator or solar panels, end up with no power for all of your gadgetry. You don't need to "navigate" if you are always going to be sailing in inland waters, but it is a nice skill set to have and an interesting one to learn.

The 600 lb gorilla in the boat is your diesel. The more you know about operating, maintaining, and repairing it, the better. Mechanics are not cheap.

First thing you should buy in way of books is a hard copy of the Rules of the Road. Second thing, a good study guide for same. Finally, anything you can find by author Nigel Calder.He doesn't mystify and he writes without a lot of unneccessary technical jargon, but he doesn't leave much out, either. Brian Toss is another good author to follow, at least for his epic tome "The Rigger's Apprentice". Download the 1946 edition of "The Ashley Book of Knots". Hard copy is nice, but on your phone or puter is fine. A good book on splicing the various types of rope or wire you will encounter is good, too. Note that you do not need fancy tools for splicing your double braid. I use a coathanger or other suitable piece of wire.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlN2W_7-w8s

.

<EDIT> I almost forgot docking/undocking. You will want an experienced skipper on hand the first few times you do this, but don't be too nervous about it. Maneuvering in restricted waters where you can't turn around will require a bit of instruction and practice to learn. The one thing I would have you take away from this is that you can always wait for better conditions. Stay at the dock. Or turn around and anchor out. Which brings up (LOL!) anchors, which you will hear a lot about. Anchors are second only to guns on the boat as contentious issues.</EDIT>

Enough learning stuff already. Back to what you need to provide a home for your boat. INSURANCE. A slip in a marina. To live aboard, you may need a survey of your sanitary arrangement and your shore power cable and wiring. To get insurance you may or may not need a survey, and it might be a good idea anyway prior to purchase. You need to have a few thousand dollars in reserve, for repairs and upgrades that you just can't do without. You need friends who can help you out, though actually you will probably make friends at your marina. You might find it beneficial to join a sailing club. You need to have a plan for your yachting education. None of this is really difficult, but there is a lot there, and you don't want to jump into it all flatfooted with no planning or psychological compass. But I can tell you, it is definitely worth it all. I find a lot of people who wish that they had started sailing years ago. I have never met anyone who says he or she ever truly regretted the decision to start sailing. I am sure that there must be a few, but I have never met one.

[Auggie073]

Originally Posted by Luxcat

I have to agree with Cliveon. This may seem exciting, romantic, practical etc. But first, you will end up replacing nearly everything on the boat, slowly, over a period of time. Some on the schedule you set and some will have to be dealt with immediately. Marine parts prices and not like car parts. As an alternate residence this is a highly questionable choice. If you are prone to impulse decisions, maybe take a breather for a minute to re-consider. Having to "move it right away" is a pressure to decide that you don't need. It could be an interesting project boat if it is actually in very good condition, which is to say the current owner has already replaced a lot of parts as opposed to having just kept it clean and looking good. But having to live on it at the same time will not be exciting, romantic or practical. These words from the owner of a 36 year old boat.

I am generally not prone to impulsive decisions and often have quite a difficult time making choices without detailed plans and backup plans. We don't have to move it right away but we will need to move it within a month as the seller is also selling the house where the boat is docked. The boat aesthetically is not looking good, which is funny you bring that up, the headliner is missing and most parts are exposed which is helpful for seeing all the work the previous owner has already done. Most parts have been replaced including the entire electrical system, engine regularly serviced, new sails, rigging fairly recent, windows resealed, brand new bilge pump, etc. I certainly don't have a ton of knowledge to judge the condition of the boat, but from what advice I have gotten from friends as to what to look out for it seems like a good boat. If you have any advice on specific things to look out for I'm happy to hear it. Most of the problems I've seen are either things I know how to fix, or simple aesthetic issues that aren't of major concern but also easy to fix.

[Chuck34]

One thing you can’t see is the bottom of the boat. It possibly could be loaded with blisters…and getting them all repaired is $$$