Buy a boat without a survey? or even seeing it?

[Restlessone]

i bought a boat without a survey and so far am happy. Of course the guy wanted rid of it so I paid $10.00. Need a lot of work but a sound boat suffering neglect. I think if you can fix it, yourself, and buy at a reasonable price go for it.

[wryanddry]

Originally Posted by Bor the Wolf

I am not even going to try to answer this question.

If you like to gamble: I know someone in Nigeria who needs to get 100 million worth of gold out of his country send him a deposit and you're in.

Send me his contact info!!

[akprb]

New keel bolts?????? The flags are raised.

High probability you'll spend first year in the yard. Get eyes on it.

[stewie]

Yes, I agree with you that you would have to be crazy, but if the boat is in the south of Spain I will be happy to take a look at it for you.

[Kaptain Ken]

Does the phrase "a fool and his money are soon parted" mean anything to you??? It take "Caveat Emptor" to a whole new level.

[BandB]

One thing said by many is that it's ok if you have the knowledge.

Well, while my experience is more in powerboats, where engine condition is more of a factor, I don't trust the same surveyor for the boat and the engines. The mechanical survey, engines and generators, is typically done separately.

Now, just talking boat and hull, without engines. It's partly a matter of knowledge, but also of specific experience. For instance, knowledge of sailboats in general is one thing but what about the specific boat and any issues with the builder during the time frame it was built? Then there's the matter of equipment? Do you have what is necessary to check for any moisture inside the hull or to check for plumbing leaks or test HVAC if you have it? Some of you may have the knowledge and equipment. Most do not.

So, do you have the knowledge that makes you comfortable accepting the risk? (I also suggest a title/documentation service as not having clear title could be a major risk as could be not being VAT or Duty paid.) I know I wouldn't require a survey on a new paddleboard. Not on a $200 dinghy. I know I would if purchasing a 20 year old Feadship for $30 million. Everything in between those two varies by each of our risk tolerances.

We've also mentioned just walking away from it, so the risk just being the price. Not always the case though. What if as owner you must legally dispose of it? A lot of boats purchased in Key West, mostly Stock Island, over the last few years for anything from $1 to $1000. One problem. If the seller was able to get you away from the dock, then all the potential environment risk became yours. More than one of those cheap boats didn't make it to their next destination. Salvage and environmental cost $50k-$100k. Now, those buying were judgement proof, a couple were homeless. Again, if it was a dinghy, I could just let the air out and put it in a dumpster. But if it was a 60' or longer boat, not so easy. I've known those who purchased but then the boat was in no condition to move. Meanwhile the yard or marina fees started on Day 1. Six months later they still had a useless boat but now owed more money.

Every boat is a gamble. Even those bought new, even those surveyed. It's all about how much you're willing to gamble. Personally, I try to minimize my risk.

[wryanddry]

Originally Posted by Kaptain Ken

Does the phrase "a fool and his money are soon parted" mean anything to you??? It take "Caveat Emptor" to a whole new level.

As I said thanks to everyone who provided well considered advice. Ken that's not you.

[wryanddry]

Originally Posted by stewie

Yes, I agree with you that you would have to be crazy, but if the boat is in the south of Spain I will be happy to take a look at it for you.

It's in Lefkas. Good suggestion though. I do have a sailing buddy that is in the UK that I am sure would take a look at it for me. Flights are cheap enough within Europe. Its the cost of getting me there that is prohibitive

[lesterbutch]

Having been in the marine business, I highly recommend against purchasing anything without some type of careful evaluation. A survey is not expensive and can save you a world of woe!

[wryanddry]

Originally Posted by akprb

New keel bolts?????? The flags are raised.

High probability you'll spend first year in the yard. Get eyes on it.

Hi akrpb. Why does new keel bolts raise a flag for you? There is no history of keel bolt issues with this make/model of boat (moody 376) as far as I know. The keel bolts can look bad but that is usually cosmetic. I will ask the broker to ask the owner why the bolts were replaced though.

[wryanddry]

OK, so thanks to all for the advice ranging from "go for it" to "you are a fool" and some well considered and comprehensively reasoned advice in between. Thanks to all who took the time to post great, qualified advice. Based on this I have requested quotes from 2 surveyors based in Greece. Onwards and upwards.

[puffcard]

Smart move. I bought a Hobie 33, site unseen and no inspection. Except my dad looking at it saying "it looks fast". That boat was in Fla, I was in Va. It was owned by Soveral Yachts and used as a trial horse against their 33. It had been sailed a dozen times at best. It was a lightly used and a simple boat. A big cruiser with all the systems and complexity, no way. I would have to inspect and more than likely have a survey. Most surveys give you info for adjusting the price enough to cover the survey's coat. Think about how many deals fall apart after surveys, the reason wasn't because they were clean surveys. If an owner/broker doesn't want to allow one...run run run.

[danielamartindm]

Would you rather risk the cost of a survey, or buying a lemon? A bank would never finance the purchase of a yacht without a survey; there are reasons for that.

[NevisDog]

Originally Posted by wryanddry

... loads of recent upgrades inc recent engine, new standing rigging, keel bolts, windlass, access to recent survey, cruising history, maintenance records. ...Hoping for a quick transaction and leveraging an unconditional offer to get a good price.

Unconditional offers can sometimes help leverage a good price, depending on circumstances of the seller; Moodys are generally well-built boats.

That said, the sort of 'unsurveyed' deals I've heard of are where the owner just wants rid of it and sells for 'a quarter of the value' or less. The most important thing here is to know why the owner is selling (marriage break-up with shared ownership; death of spouse or family member, remaining party no longer interested...). And those are the ONLY deals where site-unseen may work (still a gamble though, for those who like to gamble). Whenever there is a broker involved, a good broker won't let the seller sell much below what broker thinks it's worth (or, with a bad broker, what he thinks he can screw out of an unsuspecting buyer).

[CruiseEasy]

About a year ago a couple bought a Gulfstar 36 advertised as great condition and asking $48K. After personal inspection (no survey) they bought the boat for $5K. Sight unseen is an extremely bad idea.