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Old 12-08-2022, 21:16   #1
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Boat type/length vs speed

Hi Everyone!


I just crewed/crossed the Atlantic from Bermuda to Azores. 1960nm in 13 days, averaging 6-6.5kts or so. This was on a 42' mono.


I realized if I were to do it again, with friends who are not sailors, I'd probably want a more comfortable and faster boat. Plus, weather predictions are usually good for 1 week out. What length of a monohull would be able to do the trip in 7 days? What length of a catamaran could do it in 7 days as well?
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Old 12-08-2022, 22:40   #2
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlimited View Post
Hi Everyone!


I just crewed/crossed the Atlantic from Bermuda to Azores. 1960nm in 13 days, averaging 6-6.5kts or so. This was on a 42' mono.


I realized if I were to do it again, with friends who are not sailors, I'd probably want a more comfortable and faster boat. Plus, weather predictions are usually good for 1 week out. What length of a monohull would be able to do the trip in 7 days? What length of a catamaran could do it in 7 days as well?
All out 100'+ virtually no accommodations racing yachts choosing the perfect weather, usually following a storm.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transa...sailing_record
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Old 12-08-2022, 23:21   #3
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

1960 NM in 7 days is 280 NM per day.
An average of 11.7 knots.
To put that into perspective, the Sydney-Hobart race is about 628 NM. At 11.7 knots that would take about 54 hours or about 2¼ days. It wasn't until about the year 2000 that any boat managed that. None of the boats, including the 80+ ft racing yachts achieved that in 2021.


Basically, no cruising sailboat built for any degree of comfort will achieve that sort of average speed regardless of the number of hulls
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Old 13-08-2022, 01:29   #4
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

I remembered reading about the Dashews and their boats, and was just curious about what they could do in ideal conditions…

https://oceannavigator.com/dashews-b...an-1500-rally/

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Steve and Linda Dashew, whose articles and books about the benefits of high-speed sailing have been fixtures in the sailing community for the last two decades, broke the record for the fastest passage in the recent (2001) Caribbean 1500 cruising rally. The couple accomplished the 1,500 miles between Hampton, Va., and Virgin Gorda, British Virgin Islands, in five days, three hours, 42 minutes aboard their 78-foot, light-displacement ketch Beowulf.
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Old 13-08-2022, 01:45   #5
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

Faster doesn't always mean more comfortable. I did a lot off offshore racing and speed beyond a certain point is fun but tiring. I tip my hat to the current day solo Imoca and other sailors who scream along day after day.

I sailed a CNB 66 for a couple of years and it had a big sail plan, slippery keel and could regularly do 12+ knots without trying. But you needed an attentive crew to stay ahead of the boat.

But weight is the enemy of speed and causing boats tend to dial it down. Current 22t boat can do 7-8 knots easy and still be comfortable and carry all the booze I need!
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Old 13-08-2022, 01:56   #6
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

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Originally Posted by leecea View Post
I remembered reading about the Dashews and their boats, and was just curious about what they could do in ideal conditions…

https://oceannavigator.com/dashews-b...an-1500-rally/

The couple accomplished the 1,500 miles between Hampton, Va., and Virgin Gorda, British Virgin Islands, in five days, three hours, 42 minutes aboard their 78-foot, light-displacement ketch Beowulf.
That would be 1500 statute miles according to OpenCPN, so a bit less than 1300 Nautical MIles.
So about 10.3 knots for that record breaking run by a 78-foot, light-displacement boat.
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Old 13-08-2022, 14:44   #7
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

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1960 NM in 7 days is 280 NM per day.
An average of 11.7 knots.
To put that into perspective, the Sydney-Hobart race is about 628 NM. At 11.7 knots that would take about 54 hours or about 2¼ days. It wasn't until about the year 2000 that any boat managed that. None of the boats, including the 80+ ft racing yachts achieved that in 2021.


Basically, no cruising sailboat built for any degree of comfort will achieve that sort of average speed regardless of the number of hulls
What about catamarans like Outremer or Gunboat? I hear they can easily do 15+kts.

I don't know much about Lagoons but I presume they can easily do 10+kts in fair conditions?
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Old 13-08-2022, 14:54   #8
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

TS5 catamaran averaged 12.5 kts.

https://youtu.be/hz5qw9lZP1g
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Old 13-08-2022, 15:27   #9
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

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Originally Posted by unlimited View Post
What about catamarans like Outremer or Gunboat? I hear they can easily do 15+kts.

I don't know much about Lagoons but I presume they can easily do 10+kts in fair conditions?
There's a big difference between "easily do x knots" and "average x knots"
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Old 13-08-2022, 15:42   #10
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

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Originally Posted by smj View Post
TS5 catamaran averaged 12.5 kts.

https://youtu.be/hz5qw9lZP1g

Not according to one comment there:
"11 days = 11 x 24 hours + 16 hours = 280 hours 3,000 (nautical) miles / 280 hours = 10.7 kn average. Otherwise 3.000 Miles x 0,868976 = 2.607 nautical Miles = 9.3 Kn average"

Still well short of the OP's required 11.7 knots.
And again a one-off by one boat in a fleet with many fast boats.


No one is saying that you can't average those sorts of speeds occassionally in really good conditions, but you would be really stupid to plan on that sort of performance when looking to acquire a boat, even a lightweight 50+ft high performance catamaran. (Especially if crewed by the OP's "with friends who are not sailors")
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Old 13-08-2022, 15:43   #11
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

There is a lot more than whatever the maximum number of miles a boat can do in a day.

A large monohull may achieve 8 knot speeds in strong winds, but in light winds a smaller much lighter boat which cannot exceed 6 knots will instead maintain 6 knots in lighter winds the heavy boat can only make 4. Some boats sail better upwind and so forth. It really varies. You might have to compare polar diagrams or something but then, it depends if you are willing to use the spinnaker as well.

200 miles per day is considered good for cruising and many boats never achieve this despite favorable currents.

Search for what kinds of boats will achieve this 7 day speed and remember its only possible if the weather allows. Is the idea to be able to sail without storms? For this you just need satellite connection for weather and a boat that can sail faster than the storm tracks and in theory you can always avoid them...
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Old 13-08-2022, 15:44   #12
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by unlimited View Post
Hi Everyone!


I just crewed/crossed the Atlantic from Bermuda to Azores. 1960nm in 13 days, averaging 6-6.5kts or so. This was on a 42' mono.


I realized if I were to do it again,... I'd probably want a ... faster boat. ...

Congratulations on your trip.


What's your hurry?
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Old 13-08-2022, 16:19   #13
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

StuM don't forget the skipper is a large component in a boats speed, in fact I would say that is the most critical part of fast sailing.
Unlimited it takes years to become a performance based skipper. I clearly remember a skipper in Wellington buying a fast yacht and then getting badly beaten by slower boats. I also remember the same situation with a Farrier tri being regularly beaten by other boats. Both skippers were average sailors at best.
The fast skippers I have sailed with, seem to have complete disregard for the cost of replacing gear they break. Blown sails, broken fittings, 110% concentration on sailing 24/7 are all just part of sailing on the edge and for me take the enjoyment of being on the water.
Cheers
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Old 13-08-2022, 16:35   #14
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

Quote:
Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Not according to one comment there:
"11 days = 11 x 24 hours + 16 hours = 280 hours 3,000 (nautical) miles / 280 hours = 10.7 kn average. Otherwise 3.000 Miles x 0,868976 = 2.607 nautical Miles = 9.3 Kn average"

Still well short of the OP's required 11.7 knots.
And again a one-off by one boat in a fleet with many fast boats.


No one is saying that you can't average those sorts of speeds occassionally in really good conditions, but you would be really stupid to plan on that sort of performance when looking to acquire a boat, even a lightweight 50+ft high performance catamaran. (Especially if crewed by the OP's "with friends who are not sailors")


Makes you wonder if they meant 12.5 mph, as that would be close to 10.7 kts.
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Old 13-08-2022, 16:36   #15
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Re: Boat type/length vs speed

Over the past 3 years or 20,000 miles we've averaged about 7.5 knots. Some days are 200 miles, some aren't. We're 61 foot long but heavy, no planning but high average speeds
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