Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 08-06-2024, 00:48   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 59
Boat main rudder and hydrovane auxilliary rudder: how to work them together?

Hi

I recently mounted a hydrovane on my boat and it works beautifully. However, there is one issue that almost caused an accident. When re-entering the marina and trying to get into the berth, I could not make a sharp enough turn to port and almost crashed into the boat next to me. Luckily there were two of us and we managed to back out, go around and eventually get in, being extremely careful to turn early.

Before I had the auxilliary rudder from the Hydrovane, the boat's rudder was very responsive. So I think it is because I set the Hydrovane auxilliary in a fixed position, in line with the boat. So whereas the main rudder was turning to go to port, the auxilliary rudder kept the boat going straight, and so the "battle between the rudders" made the boat refuse to turn sharply to port.

One solution would be to have the auxilliary rudder loose. Alternatively I could try to turn both rudders to port simultaneously, but then I also have to control the motor and that means I need an extra pair of hands! Lastly, I could use the auxilliary rudder only and fix the main rudder (I can lock it in line with the boat). I tried this before, it kind of works, but it is not as responsive as the main rudder.

It seems logical to have the auxilliary rudder loose so it is free to turn any way it wants and therefore follows the main rudder. But this is going forward.

What about going backwards? If the auxilliary rudder is free to turn any way, when a boat goes backwards water is "pulled" by the propeller from the stern to the bow. Water "pulled forward" this way will actually push the free moving auxilliary rudder in the opposite direction to the main rudder (set in a certain direction to go out), and therefore creating an opposing force.

So should I have the auxilliary rudder loose when going forward and fixed when going backwards? But having it fixed when going back will also make the boat go straight rather than where the main rudder is pointing.

An added complication is that my boat is a full-keeler so she does not go back very well to start with. But I do not want to make the problem worse of course.

Note also that is is very difficult to get the auxilliary rudder off and on so that is not an option.

Any advice would be most welcome, in particular from people that have a similar setup and found a solution to these problems.

Thanks
Hugo B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2024, 02:59   #2
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 3,090
Re: Boat main rudder and hydrovane auxilliary rudder: how to work them together?

You must let it move freely when going forward--you've seen this already. I forget if it has a stop or it can just freewheel 180 degrees. If so, then just let it freewheel in reverse. If it has a stop and can only turn so far, make sure you start out with it turned in advance in the direction you want to turn, or it'll fight you.

This is one reason I prefer a servo-pendulum windvane, which can come out of the water when not in use. The Hydrovane just has too many design flaws.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2024, 07:52   #3
Registered User
 
sv_pelagia's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: British Columbia
Boat: Sceptre 41
Posts: 1,960
Re: Boat main rudder and hydrovane auxilliary rudder: how to work them together?

Take the hydrovane rudder off when not in use. (Our installation is such that removal is easy.)
sv_pelagia is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-06-2024, 18:11   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 59
Re: Boat main rudder and hydrovane auxilliary rudder: how to work them together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sv_pelagia View Post
Take the hydrovane rudder off when not in use. (Our installation is such that removal is easy.)
Thanks for the replies so far. The quote suggested above is not really practical because I need a dinghy to take the windvane rudder off in the marina, and what if I use the windvane in the open water and want to get back to the marina? Taking the rudder off in open water would be a very difficult task, it's simply not someting you want to do each time you go sailing.

I had another thought: what if you have a system to optionally link the tiller of the Hydrovane to the tiller of the boat itself? So when the Hydrovane is not in use, you lock the tillers together and so link the hydrovane rudder to the main rudder. I am not sure if it is doable practically, but then both rudders would always be pointing in the same direction and you get double the rudder power. Anyone has tried this?
Hugo B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2024, 02:42   #5
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 3,090
Re: Boat main rudder and hydrovane auxilliary rudder: how to work them together?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo B View Post
Thanks for the replies so far. The quote suggested above is not really practical because I need a dinghy to take the windvane rudder off in the marina, and what if I use the windvane in the open water and want to get back to the marina? Taking the rudder off in open water would be a very difficult task, it's simply not someting you want to do each time you go sailing.

I had another thought: what if you have a system to optionally link the tiller of the Hydrovane to the tiller of the boat itself? So when the Hydrovane is not in use, you lock the tillers together and so link the hydrovane rudder to the main rudder. I am not sure if it is doable practically, but then both rudders would always be pointing in the same direction and you get double the rudder power. Anyone has tried this?
Double the rudder power is not desirable, since the rudder will fight you twice as hard. Mine (full keel stern-hung rudder) is a beast when making sternway. It would be impossible to control if it had more resistance.
It sounds like a complicated linkage...I wonder what the other posters' setup is that they find the rudder easy to remove? I found it a nightmare in anything but perfectly flat water, where it was still a wet and sloppy prospect.
Maybe Hydrovane could design a rudder that kicks up sideways like the other windvanes do. Or you could have yours modified by a welder.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2024, 03:47   #6
Registered User
 
Dartmouth's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2019
Boat: Cabo Rico 38
Posts: 12
Re: Boat main rudder and hydrovane auxilliary rudder: how to work them together?

I let the hydrovane rudder move freely when going forward, and when reversing put the pin in. It only takes seconds.
Dartmouth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boat, hydrovane, rudder, work

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Auxilliary switch on electrical panel jugga Multihull Sailboats 1 23-10-2017 18:22
Auxilliary fuel for Honda 2 HP -4 stroke cabo_sailor Auxiliary Equipment & Dinghy 6 06-05-2014 11:14
Handrails - remove them all together or keep them? Danibug Construction, Maintenance & Refit 55 23-07-2013 19:50
GRIB Files: Getting them and Reading them Tspringer Navigation 17 31-01-2011 01:00
USCG Auxilliary Authority ? cabo_sailor Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 23 28-10-2010 21:55

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:07.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.