Boat Buying Tips Wanted (1st boat)

[Steve Olson]

I'll be looking to buy my first boat this July and have a couple of questions.

1.) I've read twice now that it's smart to have a "buyer's" broker. What is your opinion on this? If this is a good idea, how do I pick one?

2.) Is it complicated to buy a boat in Canada for use here in the US? (It's my understanding that I wouldn't have to pay an import tax on a boat that was originally manufactured in the US..?)

3.) Am I understanding correctly that you make an conditional offer and agreement prior to survey?

And, in case it matters, here's my situation: I am planning to keep this purchase under $40k after all is said and done (boat cost, survey, taxes, etc.). For that price range I will likely be looking for a 34 - 36' 1980-era fiberglass production sloop (likely a Catalina). I'd like to end up w/ a popular boat so that replacement parts are easier to find. I will be using this boat exclusively in the Puget Sound and San Juan area.

Any thoughts/comments are very appreciated, as I'm a boat-buying newby and this will by my first boat.

[Johnathon123]

Hi.

Can't answer the "legal" questions on US v Canada BUT

Under NO circumstances,


Never Ever,

Fall in love with the boat until she is yours. Always be prepared to walk away, you almost certainly will at least once if not 4 or 5 times.

I personally do not believe a "buyers Broker" is worth the money, especially with your budget. If you ask, someone here will often live near a boat and give you a cursory look over for a rum and coke or similar. This will save you a fortune in travel fees to look at over-represented boats posted by "devious" boat brokers.

Remember, boats are always a compromise, you will not get everything you need or even want. Make a list of "must have", really really nice to have, really nice to have and don't care either way. If you have a partner and want them to be part of your sailing future they should write this list and then you add to it (never subtract).

If you are tall, get a boat with the right headroom, bending your head even a few degrees gets tiring after a week, month or longer.

Have fun, its part of the process, most of us take a year or more to buy a boat, but when she arrives you know - It is like a sweet spot on a tennis racket, you don't know why it is there, you can't even point it out but you know it. Its life changing.

Just DON'T fall in love till she is in your marina

[denverd0n]

Good advice from James. Also, remember that the "must haves" should be things that are hard to change. Don't put things like an SSB radio (if that's something you want) on the "must have" list. You can always add that later, very easily. But if you really, really want a ketch, then buying a sloop and planning to add a mizzen mast later is kind of a non-starter.

These are extreme examples, of course. But the point remains that you don't want to burden your "must have" and "really, really nice to have" lists with things that are easily and cheaply added or changed. You want them to be the kinds of things that are so difficult or costly to add later that you would accept other compromises in order to find a boat that has that on it already.

[Sand crab]

In the US a buyers broker is paid out of the selling commission. The only difference is he is (supposed) to just represent the buyers interests. There is no additional cost to buyer or seller. Just like in real estate here. Otherwise both brokers are supposed to only represent the seller.

[bgallinger]

You could buy the boat in Canada and take it to the US but some states have restrictions on the time you spend there (i.e. Florida). Why not just buy the boat in the US if that's where you intend to sail it?

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by bgallinger

...some states have restrictions on the time you spend there (i.e. Florida).

HUH!?! Florida doesn't have any restriction on how long a U.S. citizen can keep their boat there. The only "restriction," if you want to call it that, is that if you stay more than 90 days then you have to register the boat with the state (which would cost less than $100 for a boat like the OP is talking about). Lots of other states have similar requirements, but it's not like they are going to force you to leave after 90 days.

In addition, most states that charge a sales tax, will require you to pay it when you bring the boat into their state, unless you have met other conditions. So it is worthwhile to check into that, also. Each state is different, so you can't generalize, but will have to find the rules for the particular states you will pass through and/or plan to stop in.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

HUH!?! Florida doesn't have any restriction on how long a U.S. citizen can keep their boat there. The only "restriction," if you want to call it that, is that if you stay more than 90 days then you have to register the boat with the state (which would cost less than $100 for a boat like the OP is talking about). Lots of other states have similar requirements, but it's not like they are going to force you to leave after 90 days.

You also have to pay sales tax of 6%, or show that you paid sales tax of that amount somewhere else.

[cranki]

Buying that size boat at that kind of age and that kind of money, my advice is to hold some cash in reserve. There will be things that need fixing and updating. Not saying you won't find a good boat. I bought a 1976 Tartan last year for under 40K and am very happy with the boat. I have though put about 4K into an engine repair I was not expecting. Also undertook a project of removing and replacing the fuel tank that I was expecting and built 6K into my offering price. I did this myself for about $800. The list of things I want to buy for her is up to about 10K right now.

I don't know anything about buyers brokers and can't see where one would really help. You can easily figure out what boats are going for just by perusing the web. You will know a good deal when you see one and will then hire a good surveyor to keep you from buying a wreck.

[boatsail]

I and many others underestimate the numbers. For example make sure to take into acct of what you will spend after you purchase.

2k sails
1300 sove
300 water heater
fiberglass....hundreds, not even sure how much
wood...same as fiberglass
tools you dont already have....dont want to know
ancor...400
chain...400
new ob...2000
jib bag...100
stack pack...550
lifelines...250
fridge...1k
sink...300
countertops....got to order
tiller pilot...400
lines...not even sure

I'm going off the top of my head, I actually have receipts, but dont want to add them up until finished because I don't want to know.

have not yet got batteries or solar

the numbers posted are probably 1/3 of what I have actually spent. slip fees 3400yr (though buying a slip this june)

much of your cost will depend on what kind of boat you want. I often hear people say that their wife does not like the boat, but when I see the boat, It's not clean and fresh. I decided to make the boat what I knew she would like, so figured if she likes it, we will be able to enjoy it more together.

[haw1961]

In regard to #3 when you make an offer, you make it conditional on a survey and sea trial.

[Cheechako]

No Buyers broker.... it just limits your number of boats really... he wont be able to only spend his days finding you boats. There are great deals that come up, especially if you are not sailing around the world and just a want a good sailing boat with fin keel /spade rudder.
I wouldnt buy a boat so "parts are available" , most parts are purchased from others by manufacurers.
Yes negotiate you r best price prior to survey and sea trial. Always make the deal contingent upon sea trial and survey.

[saw77]

I'm not sure I see the benefit of hiring a broker. If you're looking at Catalinas I would think there would be plenty of them around, in that price range many will probably be going through a broker already. If you haven't already, you might want to check out C34 and C36 user's associations, both are very active and have plenty of good information.

The Catalina 34 International Association

Catalina 36/375 International Association

[denverd0n]

Originally Posted by letsgetsailing3

You also have to pay sales tax of 6%, or show that you paid sales tax of that amount somewhere else.

Yes and no. If you own and use the boat outside of Florida for more than 6 months, then you do NOT owe any sales tax when you bring it to Florida, regardless of what you may, or may not, have paid elsewhere.

Washington also has a sales tax that they charge on boat purchases, so, as I said, it would be good for the OP to check into that. Not sure what their specific rules are, but if you plan to bring it immediately into Washington, it is most likely that you will have to pay a sales tax.

[Cheechako]

The Beneteau First series is reputed to be very well built. Heres one that looks nice in Olympia, nice canvas, furling etc for 30k asking. http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/boatMergedDetails.jsp?boat_id=2564870&ybw=&units=F eet&currency=USD&access=Public&listing_id=1459&url=

The Catalinas sems to run higher $ for what you get. Older Dufours are good boats also. Some C&C's (watch for cored hulls!) There's a pretty nice looking (from pics only) Yankee 30 Pilothouse for sale in Seattle, good boats, but getting pretty old... as are the Cal's.
There is a tax to bring in from Canada, I looked it up a wheleback... seems like for a sailboat it was 1.5% .. or something like that.

[letsgetsailing3]

Originally Posted by denverd0n

Yes and no. If you own and use the boat outside of Florida for more than 6 months, then you do NOT owe any sales tax when you bring it to Florida, regardless of what you may, or may not, have paid elsewhere.

Not always.

I know this because I paid tax on a car in Florida last year. I had owned it since 2006, but it hadn't been registered in the states -- only on military bases overseas.