Best Cruising Sailboats for Couples

[SV THIRD DAY]

I like it....but.....

This dual helm thing...can someone tell me what's that all about on a Cruising boat for heavens sake? Racing boat....sure....but on a cruising boat, that's just....ok I'll say it....a waste of valuable cockpit cocktail/potluck space in my humble (and maybe too irritating) opinion...

[dlymn]

For me
Sun Odyssey 43 DS
Elan 45
Sun Odyssey 49

and a new bed for every day of the week, Ocean star 51.2

Very popular charter boats in the Med

can be cheap (Elan 45 for 50,000 euros SO43, 65,000)

all have a centreline bed as one model or can be readily converted
The SO 43 has convertible berths too
Plenty of storage, fuel,water capacity, good, powerful motors and will sail at 8+ knots at under 20 knots

All but SO43 DS have twin helms. Easy to get them with bow thrusters and furling main. Comfort and ease of use prevails.

There you go boys, shred that

[Ericson38]

But the OP was not asking about a lot of gear or equipment a person needs, he was asking about the basic configuration of the boat/sail plan/berths/length, freeboard, and such. The kind of things that any white sheet of paper yacht designer has to consider when putting one of these cruisers together.

When Norseman (Wally Freeman) yachts in marina del ray showed me in the early 80's all the design concepts they where considering for the 447 cc and ac boats, it was impressive work to say the least. Large white paper drawings spread all over the place. What ever they came up with was going to be cast in stone soon, and that would be that for some time. as changes would be expesive. So not all designs hit the mark. The same things that Gerry Douglas, Bruce King, Bob Perry, and all the others went through to create all these classics. Not the stuff you find at West Marine, but the bones of the boat. I hope I have this right, Sailorboy.

The more equipment one has, it can extend the extent of cruising radius, to the point where the breakdown/repair rate of said equipment crosses over and begins to swamp the ability of the equipment to be useful to extend the cruising radius of the boat in the first place. Like everything else, there is a balance between necessary complexity (like an autopilot or radar) and chaos (where things break).

I know people who couldn't stand it when the chain rode counter quit working and they didn't know how much chain was let out at an anchorage, and would fret about it all weekend. That's an easy one to disregard.

[dlymn]

Double post? Sorry if I did.

Dual helms means that in a broad aft cruiser as modern sailboats are, you can sit on the high side and still reach the wheel. You don't need a ferris wheel as some racers have

Even better you don't have to climb around or shimmy past the wheel when you're med moored

And even betterer, you can have an open or opening transom and so stroll off the boat straight onto the quay. Or call over the taverna waitress to bring you over a cup of coffee. Ah, the cruising life!

[SV THIRD DAY]

Originally Posted by dlymn

And even betterer, you can have an open or opening transom and so stroll off the boat straight onto the quay. Or call over the taverna waitress to bring you over a cup of coffee. Ah, the cruising life!

I'm buying this man a beer!
I love it when someone can boil the complex down to something I can understand!

[snort]

For me, as for at least two others on this thread, it's the catamaran that does the trick. Mine's a month or two away. Shhhh! It's still a secret.

[dlymn]

Catamarans, hmm Let me see
1. price (wouldn't get much for 50000 euros)
2. more mooring space needed ( try getting that cat into the only 3 metre space left on the quay- a mono is perfect for doing that)
3 Just as rocky sailing up and down wind (unless your comparing a 65 gunboat with a 30ft hunter)
4 Only the big ones don't have crawl out bunks (so unrefined especially when you've got guests in)
5 High freeboard (which can be a pain at anchor in a storm )
6 we from below the salt won't talk to snobs who are just obviously bragging.
7 You get so many hangers on and that really ups the victualing costs (look, I didn't spill a drop of my Moet over that tsunami)
8 more expensive mooring,haulout and storage fees and in far fewer ports where I sail.
9 two motors and associated gear complexity.
10 It's not all about getting there as fast as possible. I actually like sailing and 7 knots is fine ( speed costs whether its a cat or mono)

[Kenomac]

Judging by the OP, it sounds like sailorboy is now looking to buy a catamaran. 'Didn't know Hunter made a catamaran.

[sobraon]

Rich hit the nail on the head. (Without trashing I must add) There just isn't the perfect combination that could be considered the "Best Cruising Boat for Couples".

The only thing that makes a "PERFECT" couples boat is that the boat has to be the one your partner is happy with.

Believe it or not we are that odd rare couple that went from a brand new cruising catamaran to a 30+ year old full keel heavy mono. Why? Because it was the boat that Wendy and I both loved.

I had the Cat built because at the time I listened to all of the experts tell me that it was what I absolutely needed and for Wendy to be happy she would need the latest and greatest of every conceivable cruising toy and cruising convenience available . What we failed to understand at the time was that we were not them and our needs were different to theirs. We probably would never have been as adventuresome with our cruising had we not upgraded to the mono. Even the owner of the Catamaran Company congratulated us on our choice. (Like Rich there are some other honest retailers in the Marine Industry. Not many)

Spirit of Sobraon has carried us thousands of comfortable miles and we wouldn't part with her. So for us she is the 'Perfect Couples Boat' however I am sure there are a lot that would disagree..

I to offer so many want to be cruisers the same advise as Rich. Go early and go 'NOW'. We have been cruising for a long time in some very remote parts of the world and we are still adding those must have items that would have stopped us years ago.

To quote Joshua Slocum. "To young men contemplating a voyage I'd say go."

Garry and Wendy
sv Spirit of Sobraon
Home Page - www.sobraon.com

[Eleuthera 2014]

Amel... every boat was designed to be cruised by a couple... with passage berth, water tight compartments, reliable water maker, large tankage. etc etc

I am not prejudiced

[colemj]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

Does a cat do all of the items, which ones?

Yes - most cats satisfy all those requirements. Some may have berths that aren't to your list.

Originally Posted by dlymn

Catamarans, hmm Let me see
1. price (wouldn't get much for 50000 euros)
2. more mooring space needed ( try getting that cat into the only 3 metre space left on the quay- a mono is perfect for doing that)
3 Just as rocky sailing up and down wind (unless your comparing a 65 gunboat with a 30ft hunter)
4 Only the big ones don't have crawl out bunks (so unrefined especially when you've got guests in)
5 High freeboard (which can be a pain at anchor in a storm )
6 we from below the salt won't talk to snobs who are just obviously bragging.
7 You get so many hangers on and that really ups the victualing costs (look, I didn't spill a drop of my Moet over that tsunami)
8 more expensive mooring,haulout and storage fees and in far fewer ports where I sail.
9 two motors and associated gear complexity.
10 It's not all about getting there as fast as possible. I actually like sailing and 7 knots is fine ( speed costs whether its a cat or mono)

But the OP wasn't going there. He simply asked about some basic design requirements with no other stipulations.

Mark

[sailorboy1]

Originally Posted by colemj

Yes - most cats satisfy all those requirements. Some may have berths that aren't to your list.

I've got nothing against/for far as cats. But the berth would be show stopper and that is why it is listed first. One of the big reasons I have my current boat was about the berth improvement over the boat I had before.

But from what I have seen it takes a pretty big cat to get a centerline queen, and then it takes a ladder to get up into it.

BTW - the Amel suggestion was a good choice. Though it may be too comfortable for guesses and hard to get rid of them.

[Eleuthera 2014]

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I've got nothing against/for far as cats. But the berth would be show stopper and that is why it is listed first. One of the big reasons I have my current boat was about the berth improvement over the boat I had before.

But from what I have seen it takes a pretty big cat to get a centerline queen, and then it takes a ladder to get up into it.

BTW - the Amel suggestion was a good choice. Though it may be too comfortable for guesses and hard to get rid of them.

All Amels have only 2 cabins... guests are not plentiful coz you cannot house them. Total 6 berths on my boat of which 1 is not comfortable and one is reserved for the "on watch person". Lots of folks don't like the looks but from the practicality POV, nothing is equal. It's all there from the git go!

[ka4wja]

We all have opinions....and we are all different...
So, it makes sense that all opinions are different...

And, while I side with Rich here, in that I don't think there is a "best", sailorboy is entitled to voice his opinions on what he thinks is best, for him...



And Rich.....
I love ya' man!

Originally Posted by SV THIRD DAY

...you will wake up one day and realize....holy ****....everything I though was important....well.....isn't.

But, I trust you grasp that these words apply to our lives in general, not just sailing / cruising!
The sooner people realize this concept, the happier they are....and the better we can all make our lives and world...

Holy crap, did I just write those sappy thoughts?
Damn, I'm starting to sound like John Lennon?






Okay, now back to sailorboy....and his posting...
Please see my variations I highlight below in red, as there are many boats that meet these criteria....not the least of which is my current boat (a Catalina 470), so you may want to add it to your list....
(although, as I wrote above, everyone will have a different opinion on what is "best" for them...)

Originally Posted by sailorboy1

I'm curious on what people think the best couples cruising sailboats are. For me some of the items that would be part of a best couples boat would be (and this is to some degree based on my age):

- It would have a queen centerline berth. We need to get up at night and crawling over each other to do so gets old.
I've added good lee boards and separators, to make this usable at sea..
- It would have good size shower and the water/power capacity to take a good hot shower regularly and it would need to be able to hold us without banging an elbow every time you try to wash something
Yes, but not too big!
- It would have a gallery large to to hold more than 1 butt to be in it at a time
Here you should make sure it isn't so big that you cannot brace yourself in a seaway...
- I would have at table large enough to play a double 12 domino game (knocks out most center cockpit boats)
I don't play Dominos, so not sure how big of a table this requires, but I can seat 6 at my cockpit table for lunch/dinner, etc. with no issue....and have room for many more in the cockpit, as well as more below in the salon...
- it would have a good size freezer/frig for obvious reasons
Well insulated, of course!
- it would have enough fuel to motor at least 500 miles because we aren't getting younger and sometimes just want to get there
While this nice, and I have enough for almost double that....in reality almost nobody ever needs that much....I mean we are talking SAILBOATS here, yes?
- it wouldn't have a bunch of steep steps to get down into the boat
Not "steep", but plenty of steps (along with rails / handholds, guiding you) such as on my boat, means there is usually a good bridgedeck in the cockpit, preventing water/weather from entering the cabin...
I good rule-of-thumb for offshore boats is to have as small of a companionway "doors" / hatchboards as possible, and still allow easy ingress/egress of people...
- with wouldn't take a gymnast to work on the engine or get to the bottom of lockers
I have good access, but every boat is a compromise....so don't sweat the stuff that doesn't matter too much..
- the cockpit wouldn't require you to step up on the settees to get around the helm wheel
Yes...
- it would be 45-50' because I know that is what it will take plus add the other space, storage and comfort a couple would like
While I agree with ya' here....there are MANY that will never need/want a boat that big....many couple will find a 35' - 40' to be "best"...
- it would have a berth that makes a good sea berth other that the floor or the salon (good double aft berth would work)
Yes, and many boats can be adapted to have good sea berths, it just takes some "owner ingenuity"...
-it would have an easy to handle sailplan even if that isn't as fast (no need to compromise on performance, even with an easy-to-handle sailplan) and would have oversize winches
Yes....
- it would have a dry ride
Yeah...who wants a wet boat anyway?
- it would sail fairy flat and more than 15 degrees heel would not be needed to get to 80% hull speed on a close reach
This describes most modern boats...
- it would be easy to get on/off to the dock/dinghy/launch (knees)
Again, most modern boats....
- space for a guess couple, but not so great that they over-stay their welcome
If no guests, this is a great storage / work space....

Some of boats that I feel meet this are:
Outbound 46 - I think this is almost a perfect couples boat layout
Passport 485 Vista - fancier
Hunter 45 - great budget couple boat
Waterline 46-50 - fantastic steel boat

What some others, or boats that that you would add due to what you feel are couples boat features?

I would add the Catalina 470 to your list....



For more info on the Catalina 470, have a look at these pages....

Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts

» Perry Design Review: Catalina 470

Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts

C470 Projects by Boat Name

CATALINA 470 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com

Yachts and boats for sale - Catalina Yachts



Edit:
This isn't difficult to do, in reality...it just isn't done much...

Originally Posted by Ericson38

On the centerline queen, hard to arrange without being CC versus AC.

Catalina does it well, the Aft Cockpit and Aft Cabin...



From May, 1999 "Cruising World", describing the Catalina 470:

Beautiful and big and right on the money

For many years the Catalina name has been synonymous with quality construction and a customer base with a high degree of loyalty to the brand. (In one of the many ways the company achieves this, founder Frank Buffer answers the phone in the Catalina customer-service department himself.) Butler, with chief designer Gerry Douglas, determined that their customers would like something bigger, "an ultimate boat," said Douglas. This is it.

And, with > 60,000 boats made in > 45 years, Catalina is still making what their customers need/desire.....and the company is still owned/operated by the same family / folks....


Just some food for thought....



Fair winds...

John

[hoppy]

I think the best boat is a centre cockpit boat with no access to the aft cabin from the main and an owners cabin forward. The aft cabin can be used for guests or as the captains dog house