Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 23-05-2020, 17:43   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,473
Bent Chain hook for Snubber

We had some hurricane force winds a couple weeks ago. I meant to share this with the board as a point of interest.

Take a look at what it did to the chain hook.

I usually like to use the other standard style chain hook, but this one came with the boat and the snubber doesnít fall off the chain with it.

It was definitely the weak link though.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	654EE75B-8FCF-4026-92D4-570100B16EB8.jpg
Views:	636
Size:	405.2 KB
ID:	215658  
__________________

Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2020, 17:50   #2
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
Images: 26
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

I've bent a chain hook in less. I dislike them. I prefer a good hitch, not that I have a choice now that I switched to chain and rode after reading The Complete Anchoring Guide. He also says that you should use a 10m nylon snubber to prevent such occurances if you are all chain, which is not as impractical as it sounds if you are doubling it forward from each mooring cleat.
__________________

Captn_Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2020, 17:56   #3
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,473
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captn_Black View Post
I've bent a chain hook in less. I dislike them. I prefer a good hitch, not that I have a choice now that I switched to chain and rode after reading The Complete Anchoring Guide. He also says that you should use a 10m nylon snubber to prevent such occurances if you are all chain, which is not as impractical as it sounds if you are doubling it forward from each mooring cleat.
True. Running the boat how it was set up by the previous owner right now. Under length snubber. 16-20ft snubber, not too stretchy.
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2020, 18:05   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2020
Boat: Amel 53, Super Maramu
Posts: 430
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captn_Black View Post
I've bent a chain hook in less. I dislike them. I prefer a good hitch, not that I have a choice now that I switched to chain and rode after reading The Complete Anchoring Guide. He also says that you should use a 10m nylon snubber to prevent such occurances if you are all chain, which is not as impractical as it sounds if you are doubling it forward from each mooring cleat.
Unfortunately, doubling the snubber out to the chain and back reduces its effective length to 1/2 of the 10 meters you are using as a target. A good target, I believe. By doubling the 10m back to the boat, you only have 5 m to stretch and absorb shock loads.

I am not at all sure why you you would consider 10m of snubber "impractical". Our snubber is 35 feet, and has never struck me as impractical in any way.

I have long given up on all flavors of chain hooks, and just use a rolling hitch. Our "hurricane" rig has a dyneema gasket that is prussic hitched to the chain, and a soft shackle to the thimble at the end of the "big" snubber.
SVHarmonie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2020, 18:57   #5
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 8,251
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Good lesson Chotu. I went through a number of metal chain hooks before going with rolling hitchs.

My snubbers are standard 3-strand nylon, 3/4", 40 feet each. I almost always run a bridle, so double.
__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-05-2020, 19:36   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Probably in an anchorage or a boatyard..
Boat: Ebbtide 33' steel cutter
Posts: 5,016
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Soft shackle every time these days - big long one, runs over the bow roller better than a rolling hitch and just as quick to attach/remove.
conachair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 00:18   #7
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
Images: 26
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by SVHarmonie View Post
Unfortunately, doubling the snubber out to the chain and back reduces its effective length to 1/2 of the 10 meters you are using as a target. A good target, I believe. By doubling the 10m back to the boat, you only have 5 m to stretch and absorb shock loads.

I am not at all sure why you you would consider 10m of snubber "impractical". Our snubber is 35 feet, and has never struck me as impractical in any way.

I have long given up on all flavors of chain hooks, and just use a rolling hitch. Our "hurricane" rig has a dyneema gasket that is prussic hitched to the chain, and a soft shackle to the thimble at the end of the "big" snubber.
Well, it is good to hear that people have sensible opinions about it. Yea, reducing the length by doubling was a stupid suggestion, it was late here :P
I had problems in the past convincing people that it was a good idea, I guess some people need to learn the hard way

I have 30m 8mm chain, followed by 30mm rode, to which I hitch 10 meters of 22mm nylon as a snubber. The 30mm rode exceeds the strength of the chain, if I remember right, but I use oversize to account for wear.
Captn_Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 00:26   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,473
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike OReilly View Post
Good lesson Chotu. I went through a number of metal chain hooks before going with rolling hitchs.

My snubbers are standard 3-strand nylon, 3/4", 40 feet each. I almost always run a bridle, so double.
Same here, with the exception that I’ve always used a standard galvanized grab hook like attached.

My high windage 50’ catamaran sat at anchor through a direct hit of a Category 4 hurricane (eye went over it and everything ) with my normal setup and held up just fine.

I didn’t set this boat up I’m on right now. Just using what came with it.

The idea of using any type of rope for an attachment point freaks me out a bit. The chafe factor doesn’t sit well with me, although I also use a rope to chain splice at 200’, switching to nylon rode at that point and that’s never chafed away. However, it does show signs of chafe after a year and needs replacing if it’s in use a lot. Just don’t trust rope to stay together in extreme conditions. I’m at anchor for long periods of time.

I like a “set it and forget it” type of solution. The chafe issue would have me worrying too much.

PS: I realize the hitch and/or soft shackle is the most popular method these days.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	6FB83F7B-2D42-4E8F-A4E6-449402E3BF9E.png
Views:	2401
Size:	118.6 KB
ID:	215683  
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:15   #9
Registered User
 
chrisr's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Australia
Boat: Tasman 40' catamaran
Posts: 471
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

looks to me like this chain hook is a fair bit under spex, although diffiuclt to say without knowing more about the boat

personally, we use a SS chain hook of similar design to the one shown above. as these are able to slip off the chain, we use a couple of turns of electrical tape to hold it in place.

interestingly, was thinking to switch to the wichard one as it has a nice locking pin...but the breaking load is only 1600kg ! in such case what's the point of having a chain with BL of 4300kg...any system is only as strong as it's weakest link

it's worth having a close look at the SWL / BL of your chain hook...eg the Mantus M2 hook has BL of over 6800kg !

cheers,
__________________
Now back in Iluka after enjoying the Clarence river... maintaining social distancing !
chrisr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:36   #10
Registered User
 
BlackHeron's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Summering on the Chesapeake
Boat: Hallberg-Rassy Rasmus 35
Posts: 559
Images: 18
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

We have a Mantus chain hook, with Mantus snubber bridle.. The hook itself is stronger than the chain. Ours is the first generation version. They have a different one out now that can go through a bow roller.

We've got a second chain hook as a backup hooked right at the windlass just in case the bridle fails or chaffes through somehow. The windlass clutch can't be trusted to hold the boat.
BlackHeron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:37   #11
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
Images: 26
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrisr View Post
looks to me like this chain hook is a fair bit under spex, although diffiuclt to say without knowing more about the boat

personally, we use a SS chain hook of similar design to the one shown above. as these are able to slip off the chain, we use a couple of turns of electrical tape to hold it in place.

interestingly, was thinking to switch to the wichard one as it has a nice locking pin...but the breaking load is only 1600kg ! in such case what's the point of having a chain with BL of 4300kg...any system is only as strong as it's weakest link

it's worth having a close look at the SWL / BL of your chain hook...eg the Mantus M2 hook has BL of over 6800kg !

cheers,
The one I used previously was as big as the chain could take, the problem was that it will break under lateral load, which you will get if the ship starts horsing around in a rough anchorage during a storm. It is much weaker laterally. That hook in the comment above you looks like a better option though.

Captn_Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:39   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 2,473
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captn_Black View Post
The one I used previously was as big as the chain could take, the problem was that it will break under lateral load, which you will get if the ship starts horsing around in a rough anchorage during a storm. It is much weaker laterally. That hook in the comment above you looks like a better option though.

Yep. Thatís the hook I have been using for decades. The one you reposted the pic of.
Chotu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:40   #13
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 7,243
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

For catamarans, there is really nothing more reliable than a bridle plate. No chafe, locking, as stronger than the chain, and optimized for bridles.


Neeves has some really clever variations in Practical Sailor.


Unfortunately, there is not commercial source for a good design. You have to fabricate your own. I used this one for many years.

__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:44   #14
cruiser

Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Cabo Verde
Boat: Bruce Roberts Spray, 36' Steel Junk-Rigged Schooner
Posts: 1,245
Images: 26
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Yep. That’s the hook I have been using for decades. The one you reposted the pic of.
Yea, they seem solid, and better than the design that I had, which was the same that OP posted.
Captn_Black is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 24-05-2020, 04:48   #15
Registered User
 
Mike OReilly's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Good question
Boat: Rafiki 37
Posts: 8,251
Re: Bent Chain hook for Snubber

Quote:
Originally Posted by conachair View Post
Soft shackle every time these days - big long one, runs over the bow roller better than a rolling hitch and just as quick to attach/remove.
Yes, I've heard people doing this now. I haven't tried it, but seems like a good idea. I'll have to try it someday. It would indeed be easier to feed through the roller that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
Same here, with the exception that I’ve always used a standard galvanized grab hook like attached.
Tried one of those. Stout and simple, but for my boat I found it would slip off sometimes as it was going over. Probably depends on the arrangement of each vessel. In mine, I have to hang over, or crawl through, my pulpit to attach the hook. Whereas I can simply feed the rolling hitches through, so no need for fancy acrobatics or trying maintain tension to keep the hook attached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chotu View Post
The idea of using any type of rope for an attachment point freaks me out a bit. The chafe factor doesn’t sit well with me
Never had any chafing at all. The hitches don't move, especially under any pressure, so they can't chafe. I've anchored for months at a time, in sometimes challenging areas (Newfoundland currently) -- long enough for baby star fish and barnacles to call it home. No chafe.

BTW, I'm not trying to suggest the hitches are the better way for everyone. If the hook works for you, then great. There's rarely one right answer to any of these cruising questions. I just couldn't get one to work as simply, and as effectively, as simple hitches.
__________________

__________________
Why go fast, when you can go slow.
BLOG: www.helplink.com/CLAFC
Mike OReilly is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bent strut and bent prop shaft $$? Albicelesail Engines and Propulsion Systems 32 14-02-2017 18:47
Rolling Hitch Nylon Rode Snubber ? alaskadog Anchoring & Mooring 46 26-05-2011 20:29
Anchor Rode Bridle and Snubber Benny Anchoring & Mooring 17 08-09-2009 16:46
Snubber on a Wire Cable? lorenzo b Anchoring & Mooring 1 12-07-2009 13:45
What about the snubber? Highlander40 Anchoring & Mooring 48 23-02-2009 09:21

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:02.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.