Bent Chain hook for Snubber

[Captn_Black]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

The devils claws in my photo, with the exception of the middle one that I noted, will not fall off the chain when it goes slack - by design. It might happen in unusual circumstances, but in my experience it is more likely that a rolling hitch comes undone, but not in either case under sustained loads. Chain hooks can and do fall off the chain if the chain is taking the load; paying out the chain requires that tension be kept on the snubber to prevent this - another reason not to like chain hooks.

I do like rolling hitches for this purpose, but as others have said it can be difficult with stiff rope. I do not think 3-strand is the best for snubbers, both due to the stiffness and also the twisting that happens as the load cycles. I use 8-plait for my snubber (as well as for my dock lines) due to its increased stretch over double braid, although that works well too. I always follow up the rolling hitch with half hitches on the tail to provide friction for tightening the hitch when first deployed. A rolling hitch alone needs to be tightened well before paying out or it can unravel - a tough lesson to learn at times - so add the half hitches.

Greg

A fair point with the twisting, but that is really only a problem with fresh rope, and even then I doubt it would happen if it is suitably sized. And it probably wouldn't experience significant stretching until you have some bad weather. I've had no problems with mine.

[noelex 77]

For a temporary solution, a Prusik loop attached with a Klemheist hitch is a good alternative. You can form a Prusik loop by tying a triple Fishermans knot with a short length of an old halyard or sheet line. As this is the part attached to the chain, it removes the problem of your stiff snubber line. This can be attached to a bowline in the snubber with a shackle.

It sounds complicated, but it is easy to make and quick and reliable to use. However, when you can access supplies, make a soft shackle from some Dyneema and give that a try. This is the best system I have found to attach the snubber to the chain.

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

...As far as chain parts, the proper way to take the load from a chain is a "devils claw". Examples:
Attachment 215709
The one in the middle is prone to slip off, the one on the left is tight to fit and remove, but the one on the right works quite well. It can be difficult to hook/unhook with the chain under load. Alternatively there are designs with slots in them as previously shown that support the link evenly.

Interestingly, your top choice (which I agree with ) was the last one I used for a while. It worked better than the other three I'd tried, but I still found it hard secure over the pulpit, and to keep it attached as I eased the snubbers out. In the end I just found that rolling hitches easier and more secure.

But I've kept this hook. I use it as my hard attachment to take to load of the windlass when anchoring. It's great for that application.

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

I find a rolling hitch works well, and can be tied onto a chain under load (actually, that is the easiest way - limp chain is less convenient). It does take a little longer to tie a hitch than to hook the chain, and if heavily loaded can take a little effort to untie the tight line, but otherwise is reliable. Most of the time I use a hitch, but I have also spliced my favorite devils claw onto the end of my snubber.

My experience as well.

[chrisr]

lot's of mentions about the chain hook slipping off. as i said earlier, we've solved this by a couple of quick turns of electrical tape when attaching the hook. takes a few seconds

never had a problem

cheers,

[Orion Jim]

I use a Kong chain gripper which is made in Italy. This photo is not mine but is useful for those unfamiliar with them. Just don’t forget to mouse the pin.

[thinwater]

There have been reports of rolling hitches slipping at high load. These reports were from well-know globe trotters, although I will not name drop. Both of them went to two rolling hitches in series after several bad experiences.


I thin duplicated it in the lab many times. A rolling hitch will generally slip at about 1/2 to 1/3 of the WLL of the rope. It has something to do with how the links move under the rope, and varies with the rope, the chain, and how the knot is tied. But every variation slipped well below the WLL of the rope, and at least 5 times less than the breaking strength. You can test this yourself.


A camel hitch (much like a rolling hitch but better ) will not slip.



A prusik does not slip on chain--it will break first.


---


I've used a rolling hitch, but the load was probably never high enough to make it slip. That takes a real storm. I've used a prusik, soft shackle, conventional chain hook, bridle plate, and Mantus hook. In fact, I switched back and forth a lot, depending on which was more convenient. I like the soft shackle or prusik if it needs to go over the roller. I like a bridle plate or Mantus hook if I know it will rest on the bottom.

[CarinaPDX]

This has been educational. I guess I am losing it: I have been using a modified camel hitch, not a rolling hitch, and confused them. No wonder it worked so well... It looks like the icicle hitch may be the best bet, but I would need to practice that a bit. https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013...get-a-grip.asp

Greg

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by CarinaPDX

This has been educational. I guess I am losing it: I have been using a modified camel hitch, not a rolling hitch, and confused them. No wonder it worked so well... It looks like the icicle hitch may be the best bet, but I would need to practice that a bit. https://www.boatus.com/magazine/2013...get-a-grip.asp

Greg

That would not load for me.


In a nutshell, it is a rolling hitch where the last turn is reversed to resemble a prusik, which is the real difference. Then many add a half hitch for security. But it is reversing the last turn that makes the difference. It takes a second longer to tie and is at least twice as strong. Test it and see.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

That would not load for me.


In a nutshell, it is a rolling hitch where the last turn is reversed to resemble a prusik, which is the real difference. Then many add a half hitch for security. But it is reversing the last turn that makes the difference. It takes a second longer to tie and is at least twice as strong. Test it and see.

When I was googling, this seemed like the best one and it was said it’s easier to untie later as well.

This was the one I was going to use.

Found some more appropriate cordage aboard and I’m going to put together a decent snubber to use this knot over the chain with.

Now this is definitely going to hold as well as a chain hook? It’s not going to chafe away after a month or a named storm?

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by thinwater

There have been reports of rolling hitches slipping at high load.

That has been my experience. I gave up on rolling hitches many years ago. In strong wind just when you need a reliable snubber, they tend to slip. Not always, but above 50 knots for any length of time and they would often fail to grip the chain. I did try extra turns etc with no real success.

A Klemheist hitch was 100% reliable, although it was not just the knot. The thinner and more flexible line of the Prusik loop I think helps. It also makes tying easier.

I have now changed to a soft shackle. This has been 100% reliable and is the easiest of all the methods in my view.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Chotu

When I was googling, this seemed like the best one and it was said it’s easier to untie later as well.

This was the one I was going to use.

Found some more appropriate cordage aboard and I’m going to put together a decent snubber to use this knot over the chain with.

Now this is definitely going to hold as well as a chain hook? It’s not going to chafe away after a month or a named storm?

Because the rope doesn't move against the chain, it will not chafe. I've snapped two 5/8" 3-strand snubbers in a bad storm (long fetch over shallow water--super jerky), and they both snapped, same day, in the middle. The hitches held and were undamaged. Looking at the pictures, I may have tied my rolling hitch like what they call a "camel"--it resembles more a prusik knot than a clove hitch with extra wraps. I do find it more secure than the original rolling hitch. Sometimes I take the tail and tie a hitch or so along the standing part, just to ensure it won't work loose.

[Benz]

Originally Posted by Orion Jim

I use a Kong chain gripper which is made in Italy. This photo is not mine but is useful for those unfamiliar with them. Just don’t forget to mouse the pin.

So every time you anchor you go forward with seizing wire and mouse the hook? What if you need to veer more rode in the middle of the night? Do you just cast off the bridle and recover it later when the chain comes up?
I applaud your dedication, but I'd run out of wire pronto, not to mention patience. And I'd probably lose my pliers......

[LittleWing77]

Originally Posted by Chotu

I’ll dig around to see what else is here. But wondering what to use for the rolling hitch method given no access to anything ashore and just using whatever is here and a 5/8” 3 strand nylon snubber. Snubber is very stiff.

I say: Go ashore for a Chandlery trip, leave your whistle behind, and see if you can get another ticket!

Bwah-ha-ha!!
LittleWing77

[UFO]

I had a chain hook with a pin - The pin bent and it was a nightmare to get off.



I now use a rated Dyneema Climbing loop which slips through the chain easily which is then then attached to a Dyneema soft shackle to the bridle - Very quick to use, can not slip off, jam or bend and has never missed a beat.

[Simi 60]

Victory hook is the best we have used as a general hook.
Shape of it gently cups the chain link vs point loading like most other hooks do.
Added advantage for us is it drops off by itself when pulling up the chain so no need for someone upfront in adverse conditions as our deck is several meters above water so happy to drag snubber as it tends to sit out in bow wave away from hull.

In storm conditions we do put an electrical tie or bit of string through it to ensure ultimate security or, more likely now, run out a longer snubber with massive galv thimble and soft shackle.