Are You Scared of Wood ?

[wildshore]

Originally Posted by eyschulman

Come on admit it you like varnishing more than sailing

Actually the fact is Im paranoid and dont trust any boat I cant fix...Wood, I understand, fibreglas is some weird alien substance that may or may not last throught the weekend. My boat is over 70 years old. The vote, if I may say, is still out on epoxy and glass.

[sarafina]

Originally Posted by wildshore

The vote, if I may say, is still out on epoxy and glass.

heh... you can say it but that don't make it true...

wish i could find an exact quote that comes to mind. something a coastie said on the subject, to the effect that wooden boats die premature deaths every say in water all over the world. fiberglass must have a stake driven thru it's heart, and even that may not do it!

[Hampus]

Originally Posted by wildshore

Actually the fact is Im paranoid and dont trust any boat I cant fix...Wood, I understand, fibreglas is some weird alien substance that may or may not last throught the weekend. My boat is over 70 years old. The vote, if I may say, is still out on epoxy and glass.

I bet that's what the old Irish munks said when they introduced wooden hulls instead of ox skin

/Hampus

[James S]

Originally Posted by wildshore

Actually the fact is Im paranoid and dont trust any boat I cant fix...Wood, I understand, fibreglas is some weird alien substance that may or may not last throught the weekend. My boat is over 70 years old. The vote, if I may say, is still out on epoxy and glass.

I love classic wooden boats...can you post some pictures of yours.
I can understand sticking with what you're comfortable with...but FG is pretty well tried and true.

[Gnitfar]

I quickly read most of the responding posts here, but might have missed any mention about insuring wooden boats.

It has been my understanding that wooden boats are difficult to find an underwriter, and for those who do, more costly than glass boats.

In the area I live, (Mystic, Ct.) an area where wooden boats are adored, but not necessarily accepted, by this I mean marinas, boatyards, that generally will not allow them. Over the past few decades, many boat yards got stuck with dreamers who envisioned in an old wooden boat a project they could handle, but later discovered they were way in over their heads and then abandoned the boat where it sat leaving the yard stuck with a costly bill for discarding of the boat. I saw this phenomenon occur in earnest from the mid 80's into the nineties. It left a sour taste in many yards that still lingers today.

In the old days, surveyors would build a lot of confidence writing a favorable report for insurance companies if a wooden boat they were surveying had re-fastened planking within 10 to 15 years, allowing 20 in the outset. Unfortunately today, few surveyors can testify knowledge of wooden boats accurately to assume the liability, most steer away!

I'm the last guy who wants to express negatively of wooden boats in way of scaring people away from the notion, the love, of wooden boats, they are beautiful works of art built from long ago skilled craftsmen. They are a part of our boating heritage.

Bottom line......My last boat, an Alden 32, wood, and every boat before that, 4 of them, all wood, where affordable for me during those times. I was younger, had more energy, I did all my own maintenance, but now I have glass, and as I look back, I know now I could never keep my present boat up, like I did those before if made of wood.

Just adding a little perspective here, not meant to be for, or against, wooden boats....

[S&S]

Originally Posted by Gnitfar

I quickly read most of the responding posts here, but might have missed any mention about insuring wooden boats.

It has been my understanding that wooden boats are difficult to find an underwriter, and for those who do, more costly than glass boats.

In the area I live, (Mystic, Ct.) an area where wooden boats are adored, but not necessarily accepted, by this I mean marinas, boatyards, that generally will not allow them. Over the past few decades, many boat yards got stuck with dreamers who envisioned in an old wooden boat a project they could handle, but later discovered they were way in over their heads and then abandoned the boat where it sat leaving the yard stuck with a costly bill for discarding of the boat. I saw this phenomenon occur in earnest from the mid 80's into the nineties. It left a sour taste in many yards that still lingers today.

In the old days, surveyors would build a lot of confidence writing a favorable report for insurance companies if a wooden boat they were surveying had re-fastened planking within 10 to 15 years, allowing 20 in the outset. Unfortunately today, few surveyors can testify knowledge of wooden boats accurately to assume the liability, most steer away!

I'm the last guy who wants to express negatively of wooden boats in way of scaring people away from the notion, the love, of wooden boats, they are beautiful works of art built from long ago skilled craftsmen. They are a part of our boating heritage.

Bottom line......My last boat, an Alden 32, wood, and every boat before that, 4 of them, all wood, where affordable for me during those times. I was younger, had more energy, I did all my own maintenance, but now I have glass, and as I look back, I know now I could never keep my present boat up, like I did those before if made of wood.

Just adding a little perspective here, not meant to be for, or against, wooden boats....

Never had any of the insurance problems you spoke of. Our rates are reasonable and FWIW, we are on our original (45 yo) fastenings. Nor have I had any issues with marinas or boatyards, nor difficulty finding surveyors. I still have no idea what all consuming maintenance tasks you guys speak of. Have I been missing something for the past 30 years?

I have no emotional attachment. Wood is an engineering material with certain desirable and undesirable properties just like any other engineering material. If in your mind the good aspects outweigh the bad, that's the material you choose. Simple as that. I you think that the technology is just something of yesteryear, please see Gannon & Benjamin or VanDam Custom Boats ( both googleable).

[Gnitfar]

Originally Posted by S&S

Never had any of the insurance problems you spoke of. Our rates are reasonable and FWIW, we are on our original (45 yo) fastenings. Nor have I had any issues with marinas or boatyards, nor difficulty finding surveyors. I still have no idea what all consuming maintenance tasks you guys speak of. Have I been missing something for the past 30 years?

I have no emotional attachment. Wood is an engineering material with certain desirable and undesirable properties just like any other engineering material. If in your mind the good aspects outweigh the bad, that's the material you choose. Simple as that. I you think that the technology is just something of yesteryear, please see Gannon & Benjamin or VanDam Custom Boats ( both googleable).

I have, and I will reiterate.....I speak from professional experience. I take it you are offended by my above post. Calm down... One thing I have come to know from over the years are that there are died-in-the-wool wooden boat enthusiast, that one cannot win an argument with! I live in such an area with many! I am somebody who does have more than the usual exposure, and experience, with wooden boats. I am not an amature, but base what I said in the above post, as how I perceive, but again, based on professional experience, and at last count, I'm not yet inflicted with Alzheimer's, at least as far as I know! I think I expressed my experience with wooden boats from the past, and my present experience owning a glass boat, and given my age.

One thing I have come to notice, here on this forum, many responders do not fully READ the post they are responding to, and then return a response that is unwarranted leaving the thread starter a difficult answer.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Gnitfar

I have, and I will reiterate.....I speak from professional experience. I take it you are offended by my above post. Calm down... One thing I have come to know from over the years are that there are died-in-the-wool wooden boat enthusiast, that one cannot win an argument with! I live in such an area with many! I am somebody who does have more than the usual exposure, and experience, with wooden boats. I am not an amature, but base what I said in the above post, as how I perceive, but again, based on professional experience, and at last count, I'm not yet inflicted with Alzheimer's, at least as far as I know! I think I expressed my experience with wooden boats from the past, and my present experience owning a glass boat, and given my age.

One thing I have come to notice, here on this forum, many responders do not fully READ the post they are responding to, and then return a response that is unwarranted leaving the thread starter a difficult answer.

What I read was calmly directed precisely in response to what you wrote. You seemed to indicate that it was "your understanding" that insurance was tough to get on wooden boats and S&S responded that it was not for him. It seems to me that you now have another data point to broaden your "more than usual exposure".

Jim

[Gnitfar]

Originally Posted by kleins

What I read was calmly directed precisely in response to what you wrote. You seemed to indicate that it was "your understanding" that insurance was tough to get on wooden boats and S&S responded that it was not for him. It seems to me that you now have another data point to broaden your "more than usual exposure".

Jim

DATA POINT???.......Wow....looks as though I've touched a more sensitive nerve here..........Again, I speak based upon my own experience, maybe I was misled and ultimately screwed! But glass has been good!

[Gnitfar]

Originally Posted by S&S

Never had any of the insurance problems you spoke of. Our rates are reasonable and FWIW, we are on our original (45 yo) fastenings. Nor have I had any issues with marinas or boatyards, nor difficulty finding surveyors. I still have no idea what all consuming maintenance tasks you guys speak of. Have I been missing something for the past 30 years?

I have no emotional attachment. Wood is an engineering material with certain desirable and undesirable properties just like any other engineering material. If in your mind the good aspects outweigh the bad, that's the material you choose. Simple as that. I you think that the technology is just something of yesteryear, please see Gannon & Benjamin or VanDam Custom Boats ( both googleable).

You should share your underwriter, so the few others can benefit. As far as Gannon & Benjamin, are you one, or the other, in the same? I can understand your plight with my post...maybe you know who I am, so let be, what be.....I'm not out to harm you, or the wooden boat builder trade...... anonymous

[S&S]

Originally Posted by Gnitfar

You should share your underwriter, so the few others can benefit. As far as Gannon & Benjamin, are you one, or the other, in the same? I can understand your plight with my post...maybe you know who I am, so let be, what be.....I'm not out to harm you, or the wooden boat builder trade...... anonymous

I'm neither. But those are two yards that I'm acquainted with that do very high quality work. Truth be told, I don't know who your are, but if you like 'glass that's great, you've made you choice. I still don't know what takes so long maintenance wise.

I'll name two agents that both work with underwirters handling wood boats : Heritage Marine Insurance and Hagerty. Worth a call if one is looking at a woodie. When I investigated cruising insurance, the only questions were about condition and cruising area- not material.

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Gnitfar

DATA POINT???.......Wow....looks as though I've touched a more sensitive nerve here..........Again, I speak based upon my own experience, maybe I was misled and ultimately screwed! But glass has been good!

Not sensitive but we like to get information from a variety of sources on this forum so we benefit from everyone's experience, including yours. If it is really hard to get a wooden boat insured that is good information. If you just "understand" it is and others have real world examples of it not being hard then that is also information we like to see on the forum.
If it was my understanding of something that others refute I might think about "re-understanding" that particular thing. All of our "experience" is continually developing. S&S contributed to your experience. That was my only point.

Jim

[Gnitfar]

Originally Posted by kleins

Not sensitive but we like to get information from a variety of sources on this forum so we benefit from everyone's experience, including yours. If it is really hard to get a wooden boat insured that is good information. If you just "understand" it is and others have real world examples of it not being hard then that is also information we like to see on the forum.
If it was my understanding of something that others refute I might think about "re-understanding" that particular thing. All of our "experience" is continually developing. S&S contributed to your experience. That was my only point.

Jim

I see, you want proof.......I wish to remain anonymous here on this forum, I will announce that I am a retired marine surveyor, previously associated with NAMS and SAMS, and of course ABYC, the standards everyone follows, in addition, codes of federal regulations..CFR.... No surveyor will casually expose themselves to risk-liability.....

If you have found such an individual willing to risk.....understand that this is above usual......

[jkleins]

Originally Posted by Gnitfar

I see, you want proof.......I wish to remain anonymous here on this forum, I will announce that I am a retired marine surveyor, previously associated with NAMS and SAMS, and of course ABYC, the standards everyone follows, in addition, codes of federal regulations..CFR.... No surveyor will casually expose themselves to risk-liability.....

If you have found such an individual willing to risk.....understand that this is above usual......

Are you responding to someone else? What does your credentials have to do with anything S&S and I have been saying? You just made a comment about insurance for wooden boats that was shown to not be as "universal" as you made it sound. You can still believe it if you have a considerable experience getting wooden boat insurance and you think S&S is an anomaly. That is fine.

I like to think that maybe it is not as universal a problem and would love to hear about others experience obtaining insurance on their wooden boats. I see a lot of wooden boats in marinas that require insurance so I have to wonder how that is managed.

That doesn't discount your credentials or experience just adds others real life experiences to it.

Jim

[CharlieCobra]

I think some folks are talking past each other. I've also heard it's hard to get insurance on a woodie but know of four companies who will underwrite one, two mentioned above. As far as surveyors go, I don't personally know any. The few boats I've seen post survey were fairly close to what was stated in the report. The one that did Oh Joy missed a major item but short of doing destructive testing, he was unlikely to find the issue.