Are Power Boaters Clueless

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I hope you made a stop at Daufauskie Island before it turns into a Hilton Head, going through Calibogue Sound.
It may have? A lot of Geechee history. I am afraid the Sea Islands have become a thing of the past. Clyde Custer has passed so future documentation of the islands is gone.

I had stopped at Daufuskie back in the 1970's when it still had a significant population of people that had been there for generations. Now, it's full of huge vacation homes and not very interesting. That is unless there's still something historical there that I am not aware of.

[Jim Cate]

Question for Dockhead: In general I agree with your usage of COLREGS and try to follow them myself. However, in the case of horn signals from small yachts, when interacting with large commercial vessels, I find it hard to believe that nyone on the bridge of such a vessel could possibly hear any horn that we might fit to our boats. In such cases, when there is confusion in a potential colllision situation, use of VHF seems better. AIS provides us with the name and MMSI of large vessels, and this helps eliminate mis-identification worries. Lack of a common language is often an issue in ocean waters, but some communications beyond inaudible whistles seems worth pursuing.

Of course, if everyone kept effective watch and followed the rules, no comms would be required at all... as you keep pointing out!

Jim

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Question for Dockhead: In general I agree with your usage of COLREGS and try to follow them myself. However, in the case of horn signals from small yachts, when interacting with large commercial vessels, I find it hard to believe that nyone on the bridge of such a vessel could possibly hear any horn that we might fit to our boats. In such cases, when there is confusion in a potential colllision situation, use of VHF seems better. AIS provides us with the name and MMSI of large vessels, and this helps eliminate mis-identification worries. Lack of a common language is often an issue in ocean waters, but some communications beyond inaudible whistles seems worth pursuing.

Of course, if everyone kept effective watch and followed the rules, no comms would be required at all... as you keep pointing out!

Jim

I completely agree, and Rule 2 requires us to do what is practical and seamanlike, in any case. That includes talking to the other bridge on VHF if it's really needed.

I was not actually advocating using sound signals. I have horn and whistle myself but rarely use them. The reason is that these are not relevant in close passing situations -- in pilotage waters -- where you don't really need to have any interaction with ships anyway. These are the waters where you can just stay out of the channels -- problem solved.

My point was completely different -- that you can't just steam into a tangle with other vessels and rely on sorting it out by VHF. VHF comms have no official status in the Rules. The main danger of over-using VHF, or over-relying on it, is that you start to assume that you can do a crossing in a way other than what is prescribed in the Rules, and then it all goes down the drain when you can't make contact -- the case which started all of this.

It is crucially important to know how how to do collision avoidance properly, and to be able to default back to this if you are unable to work out some ad hoc arrangement by radio. That's what the MCA report is talking about. Some people just go out and improvise, and display "aggressive ignorance" -- they don't need to understand the Rules, they don't need to do anything systematically, just call up the other vessel and work it out. This is not a seamanlike approach to the problem.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

I had stopped at Daufuskie back in the 1970's when it still had a significant population of people that had been there for generations. Now, it's full of huge vacation homes and not very interesting. That is unless there's still something historical there that I am not aware of.

I hope they at least preserved the lighthouse.

[rwidman]

Originally Posted by Hudson Force

There is no cause for you to tire or quit. I also cruise through your area and find that your observations are common throughout the US East Coast; however this behavior is not exclusive. Not long ago I was northbound in Calibogue Sound, not far north of your location, and had an overtaking power vessel signal me by horn for a one whistle pass.

I responded, as I'm sure you would, with the corresponding whistle and the pass was made without radio contact. It's really not an issue involving anger,- no fingers were raised.

I'm sure you are competent, knowledgeable of the rules of the road, and would not be troubled by this, - right?

I had a faster powerboat signal for a starboard side pass near Myrtle Beach, SC and then pass me on the port side. Maybe he was just blowing the horn to warn me, not to signal which side he was going to pass on. A call on the VHF would have been much more clear.

Calibogue Sound is south of me but it doesn't really matter for this thread..

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by Cadence

I hope they at least preserved the lighthouse.

The Bloody Point Light House at the southern tip might still be there,- I'm not sure, but the northern lighthouse on Haig Point is part of the big vacation home development and I think it's a high priced B&B.

I'm just speculating and passing on hearsay. I no longer stop at Daufuskie.

[Hudson Force]

Originally Posted by rwidman

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Calibogue Sound is south of me but it doesn't really matter for this thread..

Sure, I remember the location. I think I was thinking of you in Savannah. We love Charleston,- 'usually stay for a while at the Maritime Center.

[thomm225]

When you see one of these guys approaching you at full speed, one of the last things you worry about is the wake he is putting out as he pulls up 20' off your port side and quickly comes to a stop. You might consider age of flares, fire extinguisher charge, boat registration etc but not the wake

29 DEFIANT » Metal Shark

I had been hearing calls all morning with the Coast Guard having boats change course but I thought they were out in the ocean where they normally are during these exercises......

I did learn one thing as they kept repeating Coast Guard 29 footer approaching on your port/starboard side and that is what the Coast Guard 29 footer is. It's pretty awesome!

I should have known something was up as soon as I saw the 10-12 navy seal dune buggy type vehicles running the beach at high speed........then their heavily manned stealth speed boats plus hover craft headed out also at high speed

Later I was turned again by Navy guys on a similar boat this time on the opposite side of the bay but by then I decided if forced to change course again I'd head back after crisscrossing the bay for 5 hours and making 5 miles toward my destination............

As I came back into Little Creek later in the afternoon, the Navy Patrol Boat that turned me was headed in also. They gave a blast of the horn which was pretty nice and waved. I'm thinking yep, it's Friday night and these guys are in a great mood and ready for a fun weekend

[markpierce]

Originally Posted by rwidman

...

The only times I still hear horns used is in some cases where a vessel is leaving a dock or backing out of a dock. Cases where the signal is a general warning to any and all other vessels. Other than that, fog, and the danger signal, the radio has made the horn or whistle obsolete.

I receive second-hand complaints and first-hand compliments when entering/leaving my marina while sounding horns when low tides obscure observation over the breakwater.

[JPA Cate]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I receive second-hand complaints and first-hand compliments when entering/leaving my marina while sounding horns when low tides obscure observation over the breakwater.

I quite "get" the compliments, but what sort of complaints did you get? You woke someone up? Good grief!

Oh, just to set the record straight, that attitude I have about powerboaters--that they may be about to do anything at any time--also holds for fishing boats and sailboats, just about everybody on the water, even the "sea lice", the pwcs.

Ann

[hoppy]

I had a friend who bought himself a wakeboarding boat. It was kept on a lake 20km from Stockholm and sometimes he would go in to Stockholm and tie up at a bar. He would navigate there using a road map. On one occasion he had to borrow a knife from the chef at the restaurant he was tied up at because he could not untie knot he used.

Once when I was onboard when he was in familiar waters close to home, he hit a submerged rock and broke the propeller.

Later when I got myself a motorboat with marine charts, I looked up the area where he broke his prop and found the rock clearly marked.

The last time I was onboard, the boat was in shocking condition and clearly he had no ownership pride (his car was similarly going downhill in condition) and is solution to some starting issues was some very scary bodge job cabling around the battery.

I think the clueless thing depends on whether the person has a boaters mentality or if they are a car driver with a boat. My friend is the later, he is TOTALLY clueless!!!!

[valhalla360]

Originally Posted by hoppy

I had a friend who bought himself a wakeboarding boat. It was kept on a lake 20km from Stockholm and sometimes he would go in to Stockholm and tie up at a bar. He would navigate there using a road map. On one occasion he had to borrow a knife from the chef at the restaurant he was tied up at because he could not untie knot he used.

Once when I was onboard when he was in familiar waters close to home, he hit a submerged rock and broke the propeller.

Later when I got myself a motorboat with marine charts, I looked up the area where he broke his prop and found the rock clearly marked.

The last time I was onboard, the boat was in shocking condition and clearly he had no ownership pride (his car was similarly going downhill in condition) and is solution to some starting issues was some very scary bodge job cabling around the battery.

I think the clueless thing depends on whether the person has a boaters mentality or if they are a car driver with a boat. My friend is the later, he is TOTALLY clueless!!!!

And I knew a guy who picked up an old sailboat and made sails out of tarps from home depot and regularly needed to be towed back into the marina by power boats.

Home depot did do a brisk business in tarp sales at least.

Clueless knows no propulsion system.

[hoppy]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

And I knew a guy who picked up an old sailboat and made sails out of tarps from home depot and regularly needed to be towed back into the marina by power boats.

Home depot did do a brisk business in tarp sales at least.

Clueless knows no propulsion system.

Perhaps on land he is a bicycle rider?

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by markpierce

I receive second-hand complaints and first-hand compliments when entering/leaving my marina when sounding horns during low tides which obscure observation over the breakwater. :frown

Good for you.

That's one of the most important practical uses for sound signals, on a small pleasure boat.

Just 10 minutes ago (!), drinking coffee in the cockpit and enjoying a glorious warm sunny morning here, I watched a very near collision between two yachts when one came out of Cowes Yacht Haven just as another came up the channel. They couldn't see each other because the tide is down and you can't see over the breakwater. There was much clashing of gears and racing of engines, and the port side boat ended up in the wrong side of the channel. If the Red Funnel ferry had been coming out, it could have been ugly.


Another really good use for us for sound signals, is to signal your intention of turning out of a channel, or to signal any turn when you have traffic behind you.

Another is to let another boat know you're passing and on which side. I once (a few years ago) got scolded by some guys in a power boat which I passed in the Hamble River. They were going too slowly (they were mistaken about how the speed limit works -- STW not SOG) and barely had steerage, and were slewing around. They almost slewed into me as I went past, and they -- CORRECTLY -- scolded me for not giving a blast on the horn. They then -- incorrectly -- scolded me for speeding, whereupon I informed them about how the speed limit works. They were surprised and grateful and we both learned something that day!


Sound signals very much alive and well in these waters.

[StuM]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

They were going too slowly (they were mistaken about how the speed limit works -- STW not SOG) and barely had steerage, and were slewing around. They almost slewed into me as I went past, and they -- CORRECTLY -- scolded me for not giving a blast on the horn. They then -- incorrectly -- scolded me for speeding, whereupon I informed them about how the speed limit works. They were surprised and grateful and we both learned something that day!

Just to clarify, are you saying that the speed limit is STW and not SOG?