Apples to apples cat vs mono maintenance costs

[Eigenvector]

Originally Posted by Joli

http://marinelightning.com/catamaran/index.html#Probability

first part of the assumption:


Catamarans have their own special set of issues:

• According to Boat US insurance claims, they are struck twice as frequently as monohulls of similar length.

I would have thought that boats of equal mast height would be compared. But what do I know..........least path of resistance and all.

[zboss]

So I can do this comparison because I just switched from a 38 foot mono to a 42 ft. cat.

- The bottom job on my cat is going to use the same amount of materials as the mono. 4 gallons of bottom paint.
- I just got a rigging quote and it came in at just a few hundred more than the cost of my rigging on the mono.
- My sails on the cat are actually cheaper since I have three sails on the mono. Sail size for the main is close and the jib is closer to the staysail on my mono.
- We have two built-in AC units on the cat and use a $87 AC window unit from walmart on the mono. We toss it or donate it after the hot season.
- So far we have not run into higher dockage rates because our mono with our davits and bowsprit put us closer to 45 feet. So we are actually 3 feet less for slippage. I do know some places we want to go that charge x1.5 for cats but have not yet had to deal with that.
- We have two engines but they are smaller and easier to work on. Parts are not too expensive because there are plenty of after market parts available.
- We paid only about 10% more for two smaller feathering props on the cat vs. one large one on the mono.
- Seals and maintenance on the saildrives will be much higher than the cost of maintaining the shaft drive on the mono.
- Steering is about the same cost. Its not an on-going maintenance issue except greasing.
- Two rudders vs. one but the maintenance isn't on-going
- We have one water pump on each boat
- We have a waternaker of similar design on each boat
- we have one water tank on each boat.
- we have fewer port holes on the catamaran
- We have the same number of fans in each boat.
- The anchor setup is almost identical.
- Dinghy is the same size. Actually, we will probably save money on the dinghy because its rough on a dinghy having to bring it up on deck for each major passage.
- We have fewer winches on the cat.
- We have 6 hatches on the cat and two on the mono. So a little bit more maintenance. However our mono had excellently designed hatches and I can't say much about the quality of the bomars on the cat.
- We have two toilets and two showers vs. one.
- We have two fridges on each boat... both about the same size.
- We have fewer seacocks on the catamaran.
- We have no nets on the mono.
- We have a built-in generator on the cat but a honda on the mono.
- We have two 30 Amp vs. one 30 amp on the mono.
- Our cat is 21 feet wide so it just barely fits in a 75 ton travel lift, which means we have more haul out options than most other catamarans.

[vpbarkley]

Here's a reference for cats susceptibility to lightning strikes as compared to all other craft:

http://marinelightning.com/catamaran/index.html

A Google search with these search terms will show a number of articles:

"catamarans hit by lightning more often than monohulls"

[billgewater]

It is true that having a cat lifted for servicing can be more expensive The sling lifters (Travel lifts) need to be large to accommodate the cat beam and you pay extra for the larger lifter. Marina fees are also usually higher for a cat of equal length to an adjacent mono. However, if the circumstances allow, cats can often be beached saving big heaps of $$$$'s. Some marinas have a cat lifter which enters the water via a ramp and adjusts a platform under the bridge deck. The cat is then carted around the land for a suitable service place.
Some other features can be an issue. A cat with acres of varnished interior woodwork may be beautiful but could be a maintenance nightmare. Painting a cat would probably be three to four times the cost for an equivalent length mono.
But I assume people buy cats or monos for different reasons. e.g. a cat is better for family members or guests that prefer a stable platform. Different accommodation features. General faster trips A to B, lower relative depreciation, better access to shoal areas etc. Operating cost are simply assumed to be higher, but you gets what ya pay for.

[mikereed100]

Those lightning strike statistics have been making the rounds for years. There has been a lot of speculation why cats are hit more often, at least in the US. My feeling is that most boats are struck in marinas and that cats tend to be on the end ties, often on docks with smaller boats, putting them at higher risk.



This highlights why one should not read too much into raw statistics. There are just too many confounding variables. I suspect that if one were to look only at the subset of boats on end ties with identical mast heights, the number of hulls would not matter; or it might, we just don't know as nobody has ever done this.

[IslandInfedel]

Depending on where you are slips are 2x the price for the cat that takes up two slips width wise.

Two engines, even if you don’t run both at the same time, still two engines to care for.

Don’t cats rigging require replacement sooner compared to a mono?

[Fore and Aft]

I think you have to be more specific on comparing apples with apples. I was reading ZBoss comparison and while some of it rings true for cats other cats are way more complicated.
I surveyed a Lagoon 470 last week that had 15 hatches and ten portholes, all were getting old and will need replacing in the end. There was also two water pumps, two hot water cylinders and three toilets. All which will need replacing or servicing eventually. The number of lights onboard was huge and they were all starting to corrode on the exterior. Two engines with two sail drives, so an extra charge for painting the extra sail drive. When the rudder bearings need replacing its two you are paying for. Boot topping stripe is double the size, bow netting costs ad up. Getting the cat polished is going to cost more if you include the deck and inside of hulls. Someone mentioned varnish, this Lagoon had at least 25% more varnish that the fattest Benny I have surveyed. Slipping and mooring costs are the other issue. Here in Queensland a lot of ports only have one option for slipping Cats and you have to pay them whatever they charge unless you move the cat to another harbour. I think the biggest issue with cats is that if you are on a budget it's hard to keep one in good standard unless you work really hard at finding the best deals. That's where a mono wins since there is less equipment and more options for berthing and slipping.
Cheers

[tomfl]

In a different thread I posted this. I have a Seawind with twin Yamaha outboards in wells; way cheaper than any monohull engine to maintain. Not to mention the boat spins in it's own length. First time I drove the boat I though this is cheating it is so easy to drive the boat. I have seen both cats and monohulls with what I consider too many heads, mine has a single composting head that costs almost nothing to maintain while lots of monohulls have expensive electric heads that require more to maintain than a composting head. These two things mean no through hulls, no shaft, struts, prop, and zincs that not only cost money to maintain but seem safer to me as well.

Not saying a monohull can't be set up to be easy and cheap to maintain, or that a cat can't resemble a expensive condo more junk than is needed. But there are plenty of cats with outboards that are way cheaper than inboards and I can't really recall any 40+foot mono with an outboard.

[Fore and Aft]

tomfl this is where it starts to get complicated and proves there is no way to correctly compare any boat against another boat. When I first read you post I immediately thought how do you charge your battery's on cloudy days, how do you run a water maker or heat your water? I have surveyed plenty of cats that are on their second or third set of outboards, where as a good diesel engine will keep on going for thousands of hours.
As for an expensive electric toilet, mine has not cost us any more than it's initial purchase price of $400 (AU$). What does a compost toilet cost to purchase (Just googled $1400 AU$) then how about whatever you put in it to help with composting?
Cheers

[KP44]

Originally Posted by Cpt Mark

Disagree. Most cat owners use 1 engine only in cruise mode. The extra engine gives you very little extra speed. So you use 1 engine for a while, then the other. In a perfect world, 100 hours would be 50 hours per engine vs 100 hours on a mono.

This means very little when diesel engines commonly live for 30 years; some longer.

[KP44]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I surveyed a Lagoon 470 last week that had 15 hatches and ten portholes, all were getting old and will need replacing in the end.

I have not heard that portlights ever wear out. Same with hatches.
Sometimes the lens can be replaced. I replaced the lenses on out 13 portlights with smoked lexan. And I replaced all thee gaskets. The portlights were 25 years old. Not leaking or worn out. But the smoked lexan offers more privacy at the dock and it is stronger and clearer than the glass was.

[Fore and Aft]

I have surveyed countless boats that have had broken hatch handles, badly crazed Perspex, cracked Perpsex, leaking hatch seals, broken hinges, nothing lasts forever in the Queensland sun. Portlights are not so common but they do need maintenance.
Cheers

[KP44]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

I have surveyed countless boats that have had broken hatch handles, badly crazed Perspex, cracked Perpsex, leaking hatch seals, broken hinges, nothing lasts forever in the Queensland sun. Portlights are not so common but they do need maintenance.
Cheers

Points taken. Thx.

[wingssail]

Originally Posted by KP44

I have not heard that portlights ever wear out. Same with hatches.
Sometimes the lens can be replaced. I replaced the lenses on out 13 portlights with smoked lexan. And I replaced all thee gaskets. The portlights were 25 years old. Not leaking or worn out. But the smoked lexan offers more privacy at the dock and it is stronger and clearer than the glass was.

Very curious what sealant and the process you used to reseal the lenses on those hatches, and what was the largest hatch?

[tomfl]

Originally Posted by Fore and Aft

tomfl this is where it starts to get complicated and proves there is no way to correctly compare any boat against another boat. When I first read you post I immediately thought how do you charge your battery's on cloudy days, how do you run a water maker or heat your water? I have surveyed plenty of cats that are on their second or third set of outboards, where as a good diesel engine will keep on going for thousands of hours.
As for an expensive electric toilet, mine has not cost us any more than it's initial purchase price of $400 (AU$). What does a compost toilet cost to purchase (Just googled $1400 AU$) then how about whatever you put in it to help with composting?
Cheers

I have a 420 watt solar array and a 440 amp house battery bank that runs a big fridge in the galley and an Engel under the table in the salon. I normally only open the big fridge twice a week (or less) and transfer what I need to the Engel and even that I only open it a couple of times a day. Also runs everything else including charging my laptops, camera batteries, and the Torqeedo I use on my inflatable. As a rule I am dumping power by 10:30AM and have run a grinder off the inverter when doing fiberglass work. I also run an electric windlass and auto pilot, electric water pump, and what ever else. I do have several Lucy Lights and eight lawn solar lights on the sides of the solar array mount.

In BKH I keep the anchor light on as required but like the lawn lights so peeps don't have to look 50 feet up in the air to see the anchor light. Once during the bands of hurricane Andrea I did use the Honda 2000 to charge the batteries when they dropped below 80%. I tend to run the Honda every couple of weeks not so much to charge the batteries but to make sure it starts. I don't have hot water; not a big deal in the tropics. I have considered a water maker and suspect I could pick my time frame on a long sunny day and run it off the house bank; or use the Honda 2000. The outboards do charge the batteries when they are running but I do have a sailboat and sail much more than I use the motors. I know folks who have outboards that have lasted 20 years. Also know folks with inboards that did not last more than a couple of years. Not saying inboards don't normally last longer than outboards; just the if you maintain them outboards can last as well.

When I bought the boat there was a package of stuff for the composting heads, ten bricks of the original 12 in the package. I did buy some off Amazon a couple of years ago for about $US15 but have never opened the package. What is never mentioned with conventional heads is the cost of the head is only part of the expense. You have to have pipes that lead to a holding tank and a vent pipe and some type of deck fitting for the pump out; things that often cost more than the head itself. Not to mention the through hull that not only adds expense but also needs to be maintained. I still don't understand why anyone would drill a hole in their boat.

I also realize some folks do want things like AC, hot water showers, massive water usage requiring tankage, water maker, and pumps and pipes for the water and a house bank to power all that stuff. Not to mention that they carry all manner of toys that often require a support system with things like charging them up, fuel to power them, and space to store them. More power to them but I would rather have a simple boat that I can easily maintain; and at prices I can afford.