Antifreeze for painter and davits?

[Chotu]

so, last year wintering over I had a couple problems.

1) I created some slow leaks in my dinghy by blasting through ice with it

2) I had quite a bit of difficulty tying up to docks because my painter was unable to make a cleat. It was a solid straight line.

3) my Davits did not work correctly because the rope on the blocks would freeze up and not run through the sheaves properly.

I won’t be doing #1 anymore. That was just dumb.

However, I will house to face #2 and #3 again.

what recommendations do you have for cordage antifreeze? I have been thinking about the pink stuff and also rock salt.

Neither seems right because they will wash away when it rains

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

so, last year wintering over I had a couple problems.

1) I created some slow leaks in my dinghy by blasting through ice with it

2) I had quite a bit of difficulty tying up to docks because my painter was unable to make a cleat. It was a solid straight line.

3) my Davits did not work correctly because the rope on the blocks would freeze up and not run through the sheaves properly.

I won’t be doing #1 anymore. That was just dumb.

However, I will house to face #2 and #3 again.

what recommendations do you have for cordage antifreeze? I have been thinking about the pink stuff and also rock salt.

Neither seems right because they will wash away when it rains

What do you suppose ice climbers do so that their ropes do not freeze?


https://www.nikwax.com/en-us/product...ng/polarproof/


It won't work for a painter that is constantly in the water, but for blocks it should last a season and does not wash out easily. It will not keep the ropes dry, but it should keep them from freezing stiff. I do my ice climbing ropes every few years and some ropes on the boat every winter. It will also make them run smoother and squeak less. They will be slightly slippery at first, like new ropes can be, bu that fades very quickly.



You do NOT need to do it in a machine, just soak in buckets and let dry. The dregs in the bucket can be boosted and used for more ropes.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by thinwater

What do you suppose ice climbers do so that their ropes do not freeze?


https://www.nikwax.com/en-us/product...ng/polarproof/


It won't work for a painter that is constantly in the water, but for blocks it should last a season and does not wash out easily. It will not keep the ropes dry, but it should keep them from freezing stiff. I do my ice climbing ropes every few years and some ropes on the boat every winter. It will also make them run smoother and squeak less. They will be slightly slippery at first, like new ropes can be, bu that fades very quickly.



You do NOT need to do it in a machine, just soak in buckets and let dry. The dregs in the bucket can be boosted and used for more ropes.

oh cool!!!!

an ice climber to the rescue! thanks for relaying how it’s done in another sport.

you mentioned that it can be slippery. With the davits and the Block and tackle, there is a cam cleat on each, that for reasons unknown to me, starts to slip a bit the colder and less humid it gets. Pretty tricky to get it to catch in winter. if it fails, the dingy drops. i think it’s because the rope gets less “puffy” and seems to compact a bit in the colder, drier weather.

from experience using it, do you feel this product would negatively affect this situation?

surprisingly, I keep my painter out of the water all the time. So it would actually work great in that case for me.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by Chotu

oh cool!!!!

an ice climber to the rescue! thanks for relaying how it’s done in another sport.

you mentioned that it can be slippery. With the davits and the Block and tackle, there is a cam cleat on each, that for reasons unknown to me, starts to slip a bit the colder and less humid it gets. Pretty tricky to get it to catch in winter. if it fails, the dingy drops. i think it’s because the rope gets less “puffy” and seems to compact a bit in the colder, drier weather.

from experience using it, do you feel this product would negatively affect this situation?

surprisingly, I keep my painter out of the water all the time. So it would actually work great in that case for me.

No, it's not that slippery or it wouldn't work for climbers! Just a little surface lubricant that soon rubs off. No worries.

[thinwater]

In fact, any canvas water repellent coating should work, as long as it soaks in. I've used sprays on furler lines, for example, and just made sure I sprayed it very heavy. It does not prevent any water from going into the rope, but it greatly reduces it, and the ice that does form cannot bond to the fibers, so the rope does not get stiff.

If a climbing rope freezes in the mountains or part way up an ice cliff it is far more than a nuisance!

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

oh cool!!!!

an ice climber to the rescue! thanks for relaying how it’s done in another sport.

you mentioned that it can be slippery. With the davits and the Block and tackle, there is a cam cleat on each, that for reasons unknown to me, starts to slip a bit the colder and less humid it gets. Pretty tricky to get it to catch in winter. if it fails, the dingy drops. i think it’s because the rope gets less “puffy” and seems to compact a bit in the colder, drier weather.

from experience using it, do you feel this product would negatively affect this situation?

surprisingly, I keep my painter out of the water all the time. So it would actually work great in that case for me.

For the cam cleat issue you might need to back them up with actual cleats. Not having use of the cam cleats will be less convenient when lifting / lowering in the cold weather, but if you have a backup then you won't have to worry about it dropping the dinghy unexpectedly at least.

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For the cam cleat issue you might need to back them up with actual cleats. Not having use of the cam cleats will be less convenient when lifting / lowering in the cold weather, but if you have a backup then you won't have to worry about it dropping the dinghy unexpectedly at least.

actually, we have the exact same set up. I remember you were recommending these and that’s why I got them.

do you notice the same problem?

Once it does catch, it doesn’t let go. But getting it to catch sometimes is really challenging.

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted by Chotu

actually, we have the exact same set up. I remember you were recommending these and that’s why I got them.

do you notice the same problem?

Once it does catch, it doesn’t let go. But getting it to catch sometimes is really challenging.

I haven't had that issue, but I've also never raised or lowered the dinghy in weather under about 40 degrees. I also only use the cam cleats while raising and lowering, the full set of Garhauer davits I have has cleats behind them, so the lines get cleated once I'm done lifting.

[thinwater]

Originally Posted by rslifkin

For the cam cleat issue you might need to back them up with actual cleats. Not having use of the cam cleats will be less convenient when lifting / lowering in the cold weather, but if you have a backup then you won't have to worry about it dropping the dinghy unexpectedly at least.

My davit tackles have cam cleats, which are handy for lifting each side separately (solo) and for taking breaks. But they are backed up with horn cleats once the tender is up.


--


Re climbing, all ropes used for winter climbing are what is called "dry treated." What they are refering to is this sort of water repellent treatment, which lasts a number of years before re-treatment is required. Like treating canvas or foul weather gear. with DWR.


Not many sailors go out below freezing, so not a lot of experience here. All ice climbing is below freezing, and much or the time there is dripping water from springs (even if it is sub-zero).

[wrwakefield]

As Thinwater recommends, we treat our running rigging and dock lines [double-braid and 3-strand] with NikWax Polarproof every 2-3 years to facilitate cool weather boating.

Many of the commercial fishing boats in Alaska use Blue Steel Rope [polyolefin; 3 strand and 8 & 12 plait; not to be confused with Amsteel Blue] and similar for dock lines [they don’t use spring lines…], running rigging, crab and shrimp pots, etc. because it floats [i.e., doesn’t absorb water] and is pliable in freezing conditions. [Blue Steel is readily available in commercial chandleries, and is relatively cheap.]

To avoid line freezing issues on our ATV winch powered dinghy davits, we use UHMWPE lifting line for strength and to avoid issues in freezing conditions.

We use 3/8” 8 plait Blue Steel for a floating dinghy painter/dockline/ anchor rode for the same reason.

No freeze prevention treatment necessary for either.

In case any of this is of interest.

Stay warm! Bill

[Chotu]

A lot of really good information in this thread. Thank you. I might actually switch over to the other painter because I wouldn’t mind one that floats. I also have plenty of UHMWPE line in spools aboard so u could probably just switch to that on the davits if it doesn’t make the slippery cam cleats worse.

I need to experiment a bit with those

[JPA Cate]

Chotu, try it in the cam cleats before cutting. it is just so very slippery, and if the cleats shrink a bit in the cold.....

Cheers, hope you have an okay winter.

Ann

[Chotu]

Originally Posted by JPA Cate

Chotu, try it in the cam cleats before cutting. it is just so very slippery, and if the cleats shrink a bit in the cold.....

Cheers, hope you have an okay winter.

Ann

good idea! I really do need to investigate why these cam cleats are so slippery in the first place.

It’s very odd, because once they catch, they will not release. But getting them to catch can be a little tricky. I wonder if they are just getting stick. I need lubrication. I really need to investigate.

and thank you. Winter will be fun again I think. I had a great time last year. It was more fun than summer, believe it or not