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Old 07-06-2022, 12:07   #46
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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The Pogo seems obvious to me. Born to race. The Navy 44’s must have some magic waterline when heeled. Layman’s view point at least. I can’t seem to get an update from their positions. Why are the modern euro boats like the First trailing !?
The modern euro boats are in contention. There is a fast Sunfast 3600 2nd in CRCA-A, so far. The Benneteau First 40 is 3rd in CRCA-A. A Jenneau 42 and Bavaria 46 are 2nd and 3rd in CRCA Cruiser class, with a Farr 50 Pilothouse in the lead.

Some of the other boats are definitely more offshore racer than typical racer/cruiser, although the Pogo boats are marketed as racer/cruisers. I would put the J/111 and the Sunfast in that category, too.

Here is the best racetracker: https://www.bermudaoceanrace.com/
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Old 07-06-2022, 12:29   #47
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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The Pogo seems obvious to me. Born to race. The Navy 44’s must have some magic waterline when heeled. Layman’s view point at least. I can’t seem to get an update from their positions. Why are the modern euro boats like the First trailing !?
I'm not sure how Navy 44 Tenacious is holding the lead on all those other faster rated boats.

The Navy 44 is a 30,000 lb displacement boat with only a 36.75 LWL and a SA/Disp of 16.82!

I don't know if it's due to some experienced member of the crew that knows all the correct settings for those boats or what.

You can bet all those Navy 44's have some top notch sails on them though especially being based in Annapolis

That boat (actually all 3 Navy 44's) did a similar thing in 2018 with Tenacious again beating all other boats except the XP44 boat for boat even though there were many boats as in this race that are rated faster.......much faster

https://sailboatdata.com/sailboat/navy-44-mk-ii

https://www.yachtscoring.com/boatdet...acht_ID=247593

https://www.usna.edu/Sailing/lectures/navy44.php
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Old 07-06-2022, 15:14   #48
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

Yes I was reading it’s specification with less water line than the Jeanneau Sunfast but heeling seems to extend that closer to 40 without the modern chines of the pogo Or the Sunfast. From under water some of these old traditional hulls look like loons swimming underwater. I watched a out harbour race with scuba gear 30 feet below. Some where like spear heads some had blunt turbulence and no tapered tail.
Must be some naval architect sweet spot
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Old 07-06-2022, 15:18   #49
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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Yes I was reading it’s specification with less water line than the Jeanneau Sunfast but heeling seems to extend that closer to 40 without the modern chines of the pogo Or the Sunfast. From under water some of these old traditional hulls look like loons swimming underwater. I watched a out harbour race with scuba gear 30 feet below. Some where like spear heads some had blunt turbulence and no tapered tail.
Must be some naval architect sweet spot
Speaking of Naval Architecture the Skipper this year is Mead Tolen

Naval Architecture & Ocean Engineering Department
Honors Graduates: Midshipmen completing the Honors Curriculum in either the Naval Architecture and Marine Engineering or Ocean
Engineering Major
MIDN 1/C Teresa Collins MIDN 1/C Colin McMann MIDN 1/C Isabelle Ross
MIDN 1/C Meade Tolen MIDN 1/C John Bowers MIDN 1/C Colin Brennan
MIDN 1/C Samantha Chan MIDN 1/C Brinley Harrison

They probably have the mast pre-bend at an exact match to the mainsail and with all the sailboat racing knowledge in that area they have been taught when to make adjustments to anything onboard for better pointing, better speed, better whatever is needed.
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Old 07-06-2022, 18:35   #50
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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Originally Posted by Rumrace View Post
Yes I was reading it’s specification with less water line than the Jeanneau Sunfast but heeling seems to extend that closer to 40 without the modern chines of the pogo Or the Sunfast. From under water some of these old traditional hulls look like loons swimming underwater. I watched a out harbour race with scuba gear 30 feet below. Some where like spear heads some had blunt turbulence and no tapered tail.
Must be some naval architect sweet spot


It’s a great offshore racer designed by a great N.A. No concession to interior or boat show crowds like the euro production racer/cruisers. I bet in nasty stuff it probably keeps moving better than than the flatter euro boats

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...-to-last?amp=1
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Old 08-06-2022, 04:32   #51
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

Looks like Iris the Tartan 34C may be headed for home.

They seem to be aiming for the Delaware Bay and Lewes.

Earlier in the race, they stopped in the Bay for some time. Not sure why
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Old 08-06-2022, 05:06   #52
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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It’s a great offshore racer designed by a great N.A. No concession to interior or boat show crowds like the euro production racer/cruisers. I bet in nasty stuff it probably keeps moving better than than the flatter euro boats

https://www.practical-sailor.com/sai...-to-last?amp=1
They are beautiful, well-designed, durable, fast boats with favorable PHRF ratings around 78. More traditional fin keel/skeg-rudder boats, even late IOR-influenced or MORC designs, have no real disadvantage upwind compared to the modern euro designs with lower PHRF ratings (except handling large foresails).

Most of the around-the-cans club racing is windward-leeward course racing. Some of the modern design lighter-weight boats have a pronounced advantage downwind which gives them a lower PHRF rating for local races, but it does not translate into long distance ocean racing, which is why most of the production modern Euro racer/cruiser boats are wisely racing CRCA in this race. Also, low PHRF ratings generated by builders using professionals on the racecourse might increase sales by impressing potential buyers, but are not particularly relevant when the crew is actually family and friends. A Navy 44 MkII with 10 well-trained midshipmen aboard will likely have much better sail and boat handling skill. Unfortunately, the typical modern production Euro boats in CRCA compete against more pure race-oriented faster boats like the J boats, Sunfast, and Pogos, and lose distance.

If they race PHRF offshore, the well-designed heavier Navy 44s and similar boats can often beat them upwind, especially in chop and waves, which might cause pounding in newer lighter boats, in addition to being extremely uncomfortable for crew on the rail. Only off the wind will their lighter weight and potential planing ability help them. On a windward-leeward course, that is half the race; offshore, it may be none of the race.
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Old 08-06-2022, 06:15   #53
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

Even after a several day handicap/delay, still have my eye on P of B II to catch the main fleet before it they hit B.
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Old 08-06-2022, 06:26   #54
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

Thanks for sharing. The US Navy never fails to impress. I know every power boat around but my first sailboat. I drove by C&C every morning while they were in business. They had a huge window with the latest 3 hulls being finished. Looks like a C&C to my Newb eye. I’ve had my Jeanneau in double digits regularly. Some how I avoided in mast furling without really knowing the pros and cons. Shocks me I could add north laminates and an old navy boat will wish me well on the way by. It’s a heck of a machine.
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Old 08-06-2022, 09:42   #55
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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Even after a several day handicap/delay, still have my eye on P of B II to catch the main fleet before it they hit B.

I'll be impressed if they catch even the slowest boat in the fleet. P of B needed big breeze from abaft the beam to have any chance of staying with the fleet. Starting late and sailing south to Hatteras did not help them....
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:00   #56
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

Don't know why they got a late start, but they did. I also did question why they would go S towards Hatteras until I looked that the EU model Windy predictions.

We will see if the tactic pays off for them.
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Old 08-06-2022, 11:17   #57
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

Looks like when P of B and Iris came out of the Bay on Monday Morning they had little choice but to head SE.

The wind was N then NNE-NE starting on Sunday about Noon and into Monday etc plus it was moving around as a Northerly wind will do here after a front..

It was starting to get up a bit though by the time I came in at 3-4 pm near the mouth of the Chesapeake Bay. Part of the fleet was still exiting earlier also around 1200-1600. You could see them heading toward the north Channel Tunnel. (Chesapeake Channel)

And P of B probably couldn't point with Iris so they ended up on a wider more off the wind tack then maybe used the Gulf Stream a bit getting back North.

Iris tacked back North as the wind came around as P of B decide to continue South not wanting to tack and head almost right back where the had come from
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Old 08-06-2022, 12:20   #58
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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And P of B probably couldn't point with Iris so they ended up on a wider more off the wind tack then maybe used the Gulf Stream a bit getting back North.

Iris tacked back North as the wind came around as P of B decide to continue South not wanting to tack and head almost right back where the had come from
Iris is headed 310 at 4 knots, toward the mouth of the Delaware Bay; whether she has declared it or not, she appears to have retired. P of B appears slower than most of the boats out there. No way it will catch up. There is a very impressive group of fast boats out there. It took a lot of courage and faith in weather predictions for the racers to continue toward Hamilton. It is not a race for the faint of heart. Not only did they cross the Gulfstream, but they did it on the heels of a tropical storm...Can't wait to hear the first hand accounts of the race conditions.
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Old 08-06-2022, 13:32   #59
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

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]Iris is headed 310 at 4 knots, toward the mouth of the Delaware Bay; whether she has declared it or not, she appears to have retired. P of B appears slower than most of the boats out there. [/B] No way it will catch up. There is a very impressive group of fast boats out there. It took a lot of courage and faith in weather predictions for the racers to continue toward Hamilton. It is not a race for the faint of heart. Not only did they cross the Gulfstream, but they did it on the heels of a tropical storm...Can't wait to hear the first hand accounts of the race conditions.
Yeah I was talking about when Iris and P of B came out of the Bay.

They were pretty much forced into the tack they were on taking them SE then P of B more South when Iris decided to tack. (probably do to the wind coming around)

If P of B had of tacked also that boat would have been head almost right back where it came from

As far as faint of heart, I'm not sure why Iris held up in the bay for a few hours. It could very well have been a problem that need to be fixed.

In 2018, I saw most of the fleet exit the Bay on Saturday mostly in the morning. Wind was perfect.....18-20 knots SW.

On Sunday as I head home there was a C&C just then exiting the bay moving at 4-5 knots in the light morning breeze. (C&C 37 Impromptu)

https://yachtscoring.com/race_tracking.cfm
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Old 08-06-2022, 14:23   #60
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Re: Annapolis to Bermuda Race Starts at 1100 Today

just watched the playback covering the last 24 hours. Did you see "graybeard" scream in there yesterday at 99 knts! haha
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