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Old 29-07-2020, 07:33   #16
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

Can’t be sure from the pics, but this boat doesn’t appear to have a windlass, and it’s looks like it may have a Fortress anchor.
It would appear that saving weight was a paramount.
I don’t race, do race rules require an anchor?
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Old 29-07-2020, 07:35   #17
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Canít be sure from the pics, but this boat doesnít appear to have a windlass, and itís looks like it may have a Fortress anchor.
It would appear that saving weight was a paramount.
I donít race, do race rules require an anchor?

As far as I know, most do. And an anchor can be useful in longer races where a period of adverse wind and current conditions could lead to losing ground, so it's advantageous to drop an anchor and stay put for a bit.
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Old 29-07-2020, 08:01   #18
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

That does seem like way to little chain. I had the opportunity to speak with John Marples one time and I believe it was him (can't seem to find my notes) that said for keeping the weight down in multihulls he recommended a length of chain equal to ~3-4 times the length of the boat and then 3 strand nylon rhode rather than all chain. This comes out to 100-120' for a 30' boat, for most places this will be enough to have chain almost all the way to the windlass but will keep your bow relatively light which is what you want.
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Old 29-07-2020, 08:06   #19
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

In my mind, if you're pulling mixed rope / chain in a windlass, you need as much chain as the bottom conditions in your cruising grounds require OR somewhat more than the depth of deepest water you expect to anchor in, whichever is greater. The logic in the depth part is so that you transition to chain on the windlass before breaking the anchor free, so you're only lifting the depth worth of chain at transition time. More load makes it harder to get a splice to transition nicely.
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Old 29-07-2020, 09:24   #20
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

I sleep sounder on chain, but I agree that the Swan will use rope for less weight.
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Old 29-07-2020, 09:26   #21
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

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Originally Posted by sailingharry View Post
Anchor chain is almost a religious thing. Some people (most?) swear by it. However, a reasoned look at it can give a different view.


In places where chafe on the sea bed is a concern, it becomes much more necessary. However, in many other parts of the world, it's more of a preference. Here on the Chesapeake, where the most abrasive thing on the bottom is an oyster shell, there are many 40-foot boats with mostly rope. 3-10 meters of chain, and then rope from then on. As a general rule of thumb, rope twice the size of the chain is about the right size -- 5/16 G4 chain backed by 5/8 nylon. Nylon will, unless it tangles with coral or rock, last a very long time. My last boat came with rope, and it was probably 10 years old or older when I got it. I actively sailed most weekends all summer for 12 years, and it still looked fine. Nylon has some advantages:
* No need for snubbers, kellets, or similar kludges whose primary purpose is to help chain handle surge like nylon. (yeah, go to chain, and then work hard to make it as good as nylon!).
* Much less weight in the bow. Like hundreds of pounds.
* Easier if you don't have a windlass (my last boat was 34' or 11M, used a 15kg anchor and rope, and I had no problem hoisting by hand).
* Much quieter at anchor


Don't read this as a rail against chain. Just that it's not an absolute. Like most things boat related, everything is a compromise. Our new boat, a 43' (13M) Saga has 300' or 100M of 5/16 G4 on a windlass lifting a 25KG Rogna -- I'll NEVER hoist that by hand! Number 2 anchor is 20M of chain followed by 100M of rope, connected to a 50 lb plow.


Go sailing. Watch your anchor rode (be it rope, chain, or a futuristic force field), and know that there is no perfect answer to anything, but Sundowners can be nearly perfect.
What he said
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Old 29-07-2020, 12:19   #22
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

There's no right or wrong answer to this but my take on it is as follows:

I have a 40ft yacht with a 33kg anchor on the bow. Basically it is a full on hurricane anchor that I use for everything. It is attached with a heavy duty Mantus swivel to 60m of G70 8mm chain. This is enough for us to drop the hook in 12.5m of water and still get a good 4:1 scope.

Spliced to the end of the chain is 45m of 16mm Octoplait which we got as our emergency rode. With 100m we can obtain 5:1 scope in 20m of water or in our normal range of 10m we can get get a very healthy 10:1 in the event a big storm is coming our way. Touch wood and stroking the bunny foot we have never had to set 10:1

However we have dropped 85m while reversing in to a stern to Med mooring but that was purely because we mis judged the distance

Anchors and Rode are a personal thing. You get what you think will enable you to sleep like a baby at night. If that is 100m of chain go for it, if you can sleep soundly on 5m of chain and 95m of rode that too is fine.

Hope that helps
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Old 29-07-2020, 12:31   #23
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

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Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I donít race, do race rules require an anchor?

The OSR's in fact require two anchors (for boats over 8.5m) . . . but it is a reasonably 'flexible' requirement . . . 202 Offshore Special Regulations 4.06.2: "Two un-modified anchors that meet the anchor manufacturerís recommendation based on the boatís dimensions with suitable combination of chain and rope, ready for immediate assembly, and ready for deployment within 5 minutes except that for a boat less than 8.5 m (28í) LH there shall be 1 anchor meeting the same criteria.


It would appear that saving weight was a paramount.

Yea, weight is generally bad for sailing performance.
Cruisers typically have other priorities, but for day & weekend sailing, keeping it light actually makes a really significant difference. And in most places you can anchor just perfectly fine with short chain and rope rode.


........
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Old 29-07-2020, 12:34   #24
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

Perhaps a better question is, how best to adapt a Swan 40 to cruising? BTW this is a Frers designed Swan 40? 1986? Could it be a '96 instead? Maybe you have the Holland Swan 43?

on edit, ah, it looks like you have the Swan 391, which is really 40 feet, but not technically a Swan 40.
If you want more chain there have been discussions here in the past of way to run the chain back to be stowed somewhere close the center down in the bilge if there is room there. This might be a consideration for this boat.
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Old 29-07-2020, 13:01   #25
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

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Yea, this.

And guys, properly done the rope to chain splice is near 100% line strength - it should not be a (significant) weak point (properly done)
Rope to chain splice is easy to do, plenty strong, and can be easily checked for chafe when raising anchor so you can keep an eye on it.

If you're a weekend sailor or racer concerned with weight who anchors occasionally for a day or two, you've got the preferred ground tackle.

If you cruise and anchor a lot, you can still use that set up but chain provides more peace of mind.
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Old 29-07-2020, 13:25   #26
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

My first two boats came with short chains (10-20ft) on a long(1000ft) rope.

My current boat has 200 ft all chain. barely enough to anchor in shallow water.

1000ft of chain is very heavy.

I have a spare rode from previous boat I can splice on if anchoring in deep water something I avoid.

You can only carry so much chain.

It really depends on where you anchor, and why.

An overnight vs planning on staying put.

shallow of deep.

coral vs mud or sand

open water vs bay or river

tidal surges or currents.

Thats why everyone I know carries two anchors, and rodes at least.

You never know what you need to anchor in.
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Old 29-07-2020, 13:50   #27
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

200' of chain is barely enough to anchor in shallow water? What kind of scope are you using, 25:1?
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Old 29-07-2020, 14:12   #28
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

Well, he is used to having a 1000ft of rope rode, so whatís 200ft of chain?
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Old 29-07-2020, 18:29   #29
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

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200' of chain is barely enough to anchor in shallow water? What kind of scope are you using, 25:1?
Better question might be what he considers shallow
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Old 29-07-2020, 19:42   #30
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Re: Anchor Chain vs rope!

The use of all chain rode depends on where you are and whether or not you carry an Angel or Kellet as it is known in some places. The Kellet is fastened about a metre or thereabouts from the chain to rope splice. It has the effect of providing a straigter pull on the anchor, resulting in a better set.

Nothing beats an all chain rode, and I use a kellet in addition to that, set approximately twice the depth of water if the water is shallow. I paint my anchor chain links every five metres, using the same color code as electrical cable. Blue, Orange, Green, Brown, Grey.
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