Almost run over.

[a64pilot]

All this sounds good, except he wasn't seen until quite close, who knows why, maybe coming out of the sun?
Anyway, wasn't seen until quite close, and he was moving fast, unmanned.
There is just no excuse for that

Truth is, I don't probably keep as good a look out as I guess I should astern, I could see this happening to me, boat that fast can come up on you before you know it.

Big sky, little bullet doesn't always work

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

All this sounds good, except he wasn't seen until quite close, who knows why, maybe coming out of the sun?
Anyway, wasn't seen until quite close, and he was moving fast, unmanned.
There is just no excuse for that

Truth is, I don't probably keep as good a look out as I guess I should astern, I could see this happening to me, boat that fast can come up on you before you know it.

Big sky, little bullet doesn't always work

Well, the plot thickens.


If you didn't see another vessel until you're in close quarters, then that's a serious failure of watchkeeping. The obligation to keep an effective watch using all means at your disposal does not change, in case you would be the stand-on vessel.

Obviously radar guard zones and AIS alarms are hugely beneficial for this, but at a minimum you should be keeping a sharp visual watch.

I certainly agree that it's against human nature to look out much behind you and I doubt whether my visual watch is very effective behind. But that's why God invented electronic aids.

Looking at it from the legal point of view, just as one other way of looking at it -- if both vessels failed to see each other, and there was a collision, the fault would be allocated, more than likely, at 50/50. The fact that the other vessel was the give way vessel would not likely influence the allocation of fault, at least not by much. This is very different from the situation with a car accident, and reflects different obligations at sea.

[a64pilot]

Big boat was not xmitting AIS, and I'm guilty of not running Radar on a clear, sunny day.
To see behind me, I have to be standing to see over the dinghy, and I guess I'm just not triggered to think of traffic from behind as much as I guess I should

I have zero experience with Marine accidents thankfully, but if your run down from behind by a fast moving power boat, while your under sail, you really think it would be 50 / 50 ?

[Ungvar]

I think, in this case, if a collision had occurred, 50/50 might be pretty well spot on, because the operator of the stand on vessel was aware that a close quarters situation was developing but did nothing to avoid it.

That's the hypothetical.

If a collision had occurred, but in this case, the operator of the stand on vessel did recognise risk of collision existed and took emergency measures to avoid it, and therefore is the better seaman for it.

That's just my layman's point of view though, so who knows.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Big boat was not xmitting AIS, and I'm guilty of not running Radar on a clear, sunny day.
To see behind me, I have to be standing to see over the dinghy, and I guess I'm just not triggered to think of traffic from behind as much as I guess I should

I have zero experience with Marine accidents thankfully, but if your run down from behind by a fast moving power boat, while your under sail, you really think it would be 50 / 50 ?

Yes, it's exactly the same with me. It's not human nature to watch carefully behind, and like you, I do not generally run radar on clear days except maybe in high traffic areas.


I think that if you were run down from behind with a big difference of speed, that this would be considered in apportioning blame. Practically speaking, if you're sailing at 5 knots and a fast cat ferry runs you down from behind at 40 knots, even a really sharp watchkeeper might well not have time to avoid the collision, and that would certainly be considered, but that's an extreme case.


If you had radar and were not using it, this would count against you -- you're required to use all available means.


Keep in mind that, unlike the case for car accidents, at sea it almost never occurs that one side is considered to have no responsibility for a collision -- if both vessels were under way. That's because two vessels under way are obligated to keep a good watch, using all means available, and take action adequate to avoid a collision. Both vessels.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Ungvar

I think, in this case, if a collision had occurred, 50/50 might be pretty well spot on, because the operator of the stand on vessel was aware that a close quarters situation was developing but did nothing to avoid it.

That's the hypothetical.

If a collision had occurred, but in this case, the operator of the stand on vessel did recognise risk of collision existed and took emergency measures to avoid it, and therefore is the better seaman for it.

That's just my layman's point of view though, so who knows.

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Layman? I thought you were a pro mariner, no?

[Kenomac]

Captain Bill,

Why in the world did YOU wait so long to take evasive action, when it's very apparent that you were clearly aware something wasn't right with the other boat?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Forget about legality or rules.... The larger boat will nearly always be the winner following a collision... I figured this out 40 years ago. The same goes with cars.

I believe this to be common sensical.

[Ungvar]

I used to be, I just work in regulatory oversight now.

I used to be 25 and in excellent shape too, but if I claimed that on a dating site now, I'd be revealed as a fraud by the first lady who took me out

Sent from my XP7700 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

[Stu Jackson]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Yes, it's exactly the same with me. It's not human nature to watch carefully behind, ...

We have to motor out of the Oakland Estuary to get to SF Bay to sail. This is essentially and mostly the Oakland Inner Harbor with HUGE containerships, fast ferries and stupid motoryachts.

I use the phrase "Don't be a slave behind the wheel" very often in discussions about autopilots. Accordingly, I'm in front of the wheel and have ample opportunity to look back on a REGULAR basis.

A good habit for all to get into, and maybe a technique for a64 and others to pick up on.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Stu Jackson

We have to motor out of the Oakland Estuary to get to SF Bay to sail. This is essentially and mostly the Oakland Inner Harbor with HUGE containerships, fast ferries and stupid motoryachts.

I use the phrase "Don't be a slave behind the wheel" very often in discussions about autopilots. Accordingly, I'm in front of the wheel and have ample opportunity to look back on a REGULAR basis.

A good habit for all to get into, and maybe a technique for a64 and others to pick up on.

That's a good tip. As beneficial to me as anyone else. Thanks.

[Kenomac]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

That's a good tip. As beneficial to me as anyone else. Thanks.

Dockhead,

How have you found the time to write 14,600 posts?

Ken

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

Dockhead,

How have you found the time to write 14,600 posts?

Ken

Wasting time at work

But remember that's over 8 years.

[cenicero]

Very glad to hear you managed to survive and fair play to you for having a rant and for taking the actions you did. I think this is the yacht my daughter crewed on last year (well slaved would be more apt). She left after 10 days due to the unprofessional crew and a lech for a skipper, more concerned with socialising with the guests than running the boat.
Well done again. There's enough crap out there for us to deal with. Let's hope the CG deal with him and may I urge you to follow up for all our sakes.

[senormechanico]

Originally Posted by Captain Bill

I have to admit that the thought of putting a few rounds through those big windows did cross my mind, but I left my 30.06 at home.

That's what the "shotgun app" is for.

[clownfishsydney]

On a night sail last year coming down the New South Wales coast, my wife had a fishing trawler overtake and cross us (could see them on radar and visually). Despite repeated radio calls, they never responded or took action to pass us safely. She had to slow right down and thy passed within 200 metres. They also did this to at least two other yachts the same night. Hopeless. We could not complain to anyone as we had no idea who they were.

Glad you were not hit.