Advice on best 12v desalination brands and units

[Kd9truck]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

I'm interested in the info, so happily following along. I've not made the watermaker leap yet, but I can see a day when I will.

One question though: do you actually need one? You say you cruise for about a month, and you carry 160 gallons. I carry about 200 gallons and can go for a couple of months without much effort. If I'm really conscious of water use I can stretch this to almost three months.

Have you actually tested whether you need a watermaker?

Hi Mike, I am not planing the upgrade based on current usage, I am anticipating longer and more frequent trips, I am taking my time, I am slowly prepping my boat for longer cruse times, I day sail from April to Nov 2-4x a week, my month of cruising have been a collection of cruses, basicly 6 five day trips. I like keeping my water system running, I would rather take showers and flush (electric fresh water) heads and hose the fore deck down after a good day of splashing about.
I crewed with a friend on 2 trips last year (2500 nm)he has a PUR watermaker the crew (my self included ) of 4 took showers every day during 2 -10 day passages. It ruined me, we washed cloths every 3 days. No stressing over crew use, no salt water dishwashing, no stinky salt water heads. No camping/frontier living.
At some point I want to full time cruise with the boss, the easier the transition the longer I can keep her onboard, right now we are enjoying our collage age children, they will be living their lives independently soon, we are enjoying them while we can.

I hope this clears up my intention and porpoise.
Cheers

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by Kd9truck

Hi Mike, I am not planing the upgrade based on current usage, I am anticipating longer and more frequent trips, I am taking my time, I am slowly prepping my boat for longer cruse times,

Sounds good. Just asking, since it's not hard to go for a month on 160 gallons. I too am anticipating the future.

One of the factors that keeps me from pulling the plug on a new watermaker is the cost-benefit. I love the idea of having a watermaker, but so far, I can't justify the significant expense given our water needs.

But I still want one .

[supermarin]

Spectra Cape Horn Extreme 330. Bulletproof, lightweight, super efficient.
- 56L (15 gal) / hr for 19 amps at 12V.
- Can also run on 1 feed pump, 9 amps 33L (8.7gal) / hr at 12V.

[Bali43Cat]

We use an AquaBase ES901 12V unit - 30 gal. per hour at only 34 amps / 410 watts. Upside is it's efficient and VERY easy to use - one button push and away it goes with automatic salinity control. It's also fairly compact with a couple shorter membranes than others I've seen.

We've given it very heavy use over 3 years on two different boats and have gotten nothing but great water on a daily basis. We try to use daily and rarely give a fresh water rinse other than when not being used for more than a week or so. We have a huge solar/lithium array so we spare no usage - 1000 liters of storage on board and liberally use water for long hot showers, laundry, and regular whole boat wash downs (Bali 4.8).

Downside - French made - parts & supplies can be a bit difficult. We did have the low pressure pump fail (probably due to our own abuse) and replacing that in a hurry took some innovative approaches (bought a similar/cheaper pump by the same manufacturer and swapped the guts out).

Based on our use and needs I would recommend this unit.

https://slce-watermakers.com/desalinator/aqua-base-es/

[CaptainRivet]

IYNo one asking questions:
- how many liters do you expect to use a day, average, min and max. =>optimum size is average consumption for 2 dayscount with 3-4persons for long passages
- what amount of energy do you have to run the watermaker: how much solar/average amps charging, how big is the bank and what type of battery. How big is the inverter?
- or do you wanna drive it via the engine?
- what is your budget: they start around 2000Euro DIY with a kärcher high pressure cleaner as high pressure pump till 20000Euro...
- must it be fully automatic or are you ok with manual operation?
- how much space do you have for the watermaker. There are modular units which you can spread where you have space or all in one units. Also membran size depends on how much space you have?


General comments to watermaker :
1) a watermaker that runs minimum every 2 days is a well working watermaker
2) pickling destroys the membranes faster
3) watermaker that sits around will cause problems
4) the simpler the watermaker is the more reliable it is and the lees proprietary parts are used. Best one is one that has no proprietary parts at all.
5)Especially all this energy recovery stuff is mostly proprietary, complex, expensive and the most common things that breaks first. Better use a simple one that uses more energy and upgrade solar and your bank. Its cheaper and more reliable at the end.
6) the filters need to be mounted in easy access areas, you will change them regularly.
7) the high pressure pump must be common, no proprietary part because thats the part that breaks the most.
8) 12V is best used till approx 60l/h, 24V till approx 110l and above 110/230V except you have a lithium bank.

My recommendations:
If you are ok with manual operation and a modular watermaker then
www.seawaterpro.com
All parts common, no proprietary parts and best value for money but you need to put it together yourself.
Want automatic, have more budget and the most reliable one: RO cruise

Want top notch that last longer then the boat, all made from A4 stainless, very compact but still 50-60l/h at 12V, full automatic and really no proprietary parts then HP watermaker, ultra tronic models but they cost a liver... 13300Euro plus 2nd remote panel (1st is mounted on the watermaker chassis) that you will mount at comfortable operation area=14700Euro
I have an 12V HP 30 tronic ultra with 2nd panel and love it, fitted perfectly under the bench in the owner cabin but i did only pay 3000Euro for an overhauled unit from a race boat that just sat around but was never used so they could tank less water. Would I buy it for the full price: no, i would take the 12V seawater pro with upgrade SS pump. Enough for producing water and i am ok with manual operation

[aqfishing]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Anything with a Clark pump.

Not sure how these Clark pumps work with a watermaker??

https://www.clarksusa.com/womens/pumps/c/w18

[jbinbi]

Just from my observations on reading this thread, it seems the DC makers use about 1 Ahr per gallon. Roughly. So to fill your tank you need about 160 Ahrs. If you used 10 gallons per day per person? you would need to run it 8 hrs once a week per person. You can change the gallons per day and people to change the rates.

[CaptainRivet]

Water consumption for a couple live aboard is in average 10-15 gallons a day, 15 if long hair.
And this is comfortable with 1 or 2 splash down and a full normal shower for both per day.
On a wash day when washing maschine is running i run in parallel the watermaker and this evens out the consumption of washing.
This is actually the biggest water consumption, one 3.5kg load is 22 till 40l depending on program chosen. This goes exta and normally 2 till 3 loads a week, 1 bed sheet and 1 cloth load per person.

So running a typical 12V 60l/h or 18 gallons/h around 45min each day keeps up with your consumption. If the water contains more salt its 50l/h so maybe 1h a day. Like this you never need to pickle or even flush it.
I run it daily and have the water tank filled around 1/2 in average and only fill it up completely for long passages, better weight balance for the cat and I have 700l capacity.
Mine has small energy recovery capabilities witn no proprietary parts and needs 30-35A so around 30-35AH daily. If i get visitors i normally ramp up to 3/4 or full tank and run it daily as always plus when having excess energy.

[noelex 77]

Originally Posted by jbinbi

Just from my observations on reading this thread, it seems the DC makers use about 1 Ahr per gallon.

Only the energy recovery water-makers will be close to this efficiency. The non-energy recovery models will be much worse.

It is a common misconception that all 12v water-makers use energy recovery technology.

[jbinbi]

Originally Posted by noelex 77

Only the energy recovery water-makers will be close to this efficiency. The non-energy recovery models will be much worse.

It is a common misconception that all 12v water-makers use energy recovery technology.

OK. Good to know this!

Still, OP has 160G tank. If he refills when down by half, 80G will use ~80Ah to refill. From other posts, seem to get about 15G/hr, so about 6 hours to refill from half to full. I know it is not practical or efficient to run 12V watermakers for just an hour at a time, but if you are sailing where there is good sun, hopefully a 4 hour run while the solar is working efficiently 2x a week keeps you full and isn't an unreasonable assumption?

If you are saying 4 people on the boat each using 10G a day, then I think my assumptions don't hold as that would mean refilling from half every 2 days and I don't think you can count on sunlight like that. Every 4 days seems more reasonable. While some cruisers think 10G a day is a ridiculous amount and live on 2G a day, the OP said he and everyone on the boat would like to shower, (and assuming not a combat shower), use fresh water for the toilet, and do a laundry every few days, so 10G/day per person might even be low for that.

[PaulCrawhorn]

Using 12V power does not necessarily mean relying on solar too much.

With an LFP bank, an alternator can push lots of Ah in very quickly

some have wind or hydro,

and of course a generator can feed a mains charger.

The more options the better, being "mostly solar" is a lot more attainable than only solar, for most cruisers

[newhaul]

I must be the outlier on all this I use about 2 gallons of water daily
My old powersurvivor35 keeps a plugging along yes it is power hungry considering some others on DC but it's what I have and am happy with .
The real water saver for me was a seawater Fawcett for pre rinse of the dirty dishes. Cut my usage by nearly 1/3 .

[Mike OReilly]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I must be the outlier on all this I use about 2 gallons of water daily
My old powersurvivor35 keeps a plugging along yes it is power hungry considering some others on DC but it's what I have and am happy with .
The real water saver for me was a seawater Fawcett for pre rinse of the dirty dishes. Cut my usage by nearly 1/3 .

You're not alone. Since installing a flow meter I know exactly how much water we use (I cruise as a couple). It comes out to about 2 gallons per day, or one per person per day.

We too have a raw water faucet in the galley, which we use for the bulk cleaning, then apply a fresh-water spritz. We also have a composting head (like you), so no water needed there. And probably the biggest factor is that we cruise on cooler climates, so probably don't sweat as much. We certainly don't swim much, so no need for constant rinsing off.

We don't go out of our way to conserve water. We use it as needed. But we are conscious of its use; just like we're conscious of all limited resources on board. I guess it comes from years living frugally with water. Our last land home was on a well and septic system, so we had to be aware of what we were using.

I really get the desire to have a watermaker. I want one. But it's hard to justify right now. Maybe if I was in an area where clean water was less accessible, or expensive. But right now I can go out for multiple months, and I can refill at most docks for free.

If/when I get one, it will likely be a PowerSurvivor 40E, which I believe is the current equivalent to yours.

[newhaul]

Originally Posted by Mike OReilly

You're not alone. Since installing a flow meter I know exactly how much water we use (I cruise as a couple). It comes out to about 2 gallons per day, or one per person per day.

We too have a raw water faucet in the galley, which we use for the bulk cleaning, then apply a fresh-water spritz. We also have a composting head (like you), so no water needed there. And probably the biggest factor is that we cruise on cooler climates, so probably don't sweat as much. We certainly don't swim much, so no need for constant rinsing off.

We don't go out of our way to conserve water. We use it as needed. But we are conscious of its use; just like we're conscious of all limited resources on board. I guess it comes from years living frugally with water. Our last land home was on a well and septic system, so we had to be aware of what we were using.

I really get the desire to have a watermaker. I want one. But it's hard to justify right now. Maybe if I was in an area where clean water was less accessible, or expensive. But right now I can go out for multiple months, and I can refill at most docks for free.

If/when I get one, it will likely be a PowerSurvivor 40E, which I believe is the current equivalent to yours.

I'm keeping my ears open for you let me know when your ready and I will find one for a reasonable price. . Remember I paid less than 500 for 2 units . All total .

[CaptainRivet]

Originally Posted by newhaul

I'm keeping my ears open for you let me know when your ready and I will find one for a reasonable price. . Remember I paid less than 500 for 2 units . All total .

There is a reason they are cheap... Everything is proprietary and you pay an arm and leg for spare parts whichbyou regularly need.
Had one in my old ketch and wanted to use it daliy but was more broke then worked reliable, always something...
Now a HP watermaker UC35 tronic, works like a charm daily, fully made of V4A stainless and no proprietary parts besides the automatic valve for which I have a non proprietary manual valve too to replace or bypass if fails. Costs a fortune new but i got it used freshly overhauled for 3000. no maintenence beside filter and oil change every 600h.