Advice, How to Maintain Watch & Sail When Solo Thru 24 Hr's. (+) Time Periods ?

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Well it can be done.. and is more than folk realise..
My example happened in '05.. from Beaufort, NC to the UK..
My new Simrad WP died on me.. (they had crap belts) just N of Bermuda.. I had the option to turn back as I had the previous year in my first attempt when a wave dumped on top of me and punched out a bulkhead.. however this time I chose to press on.
It took a total of 40days to reach Horta from Beaufort.. hand steering dawn till dusk then heaving to, making something hot to eat then getting my head down till the light woke me around dawn.
Should add.. this included being hove to for near a week for my back to recover after being thrown across the cockpit onto a winch by a bigger than usual cross wave slapping my stern..
First week was the hardest.. shoulders and upper arms killed.. then I got the feel for using my feet to spell myself and life got better.
Be surprised what's possible when the **** hits the fan..
From Horta it took near 40 more days to reach Poole, UK.. still hand steering..
Ahh... to be young and hardy again..

What an effort that would be just about epirb time for me

[secrabtree]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Dang, Sam, that sounds pretty astute to me! And for the record, I don't remember you being all that clever 50years ago... were we not both flogging our brains out in our silly little boats on SF bay then?

At any rate, I agree with your analysis of the odds of coinciding with another object at any given time not being affected by your velocity. The only thing that might be a factor is that hitting a stationary object will be nastier if you are going fast, so if you were so unlucky as to hit that other single hander who was hove to and stopped, it would be better to go slowly!

But I bet you will have a hard time convincing most of the other punters of your logic.

Cheers,

Jim

Jim - We were MUCH younger and both more conceited then. We were sailing competitors that hadn't yet learned to separate our on-the-water "enemy" and what should have been our after race friend. I look back on our racing as great fun days, but also days where I didn't take advantage of the opportunities to really know you. I enjoyed beating you. But you know what? I also enjoyed being beaten by you when that happened. And now you're doing what I wished I was doing, wished I was able to do.

[boatman61]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

What an effort that would be just about epirb time for me

Had my friends back in Oriental and www.towndock.net worried for a while...
Search 'Turnaround Phil' and/or 'Moondance' for their version..'04 and '05....

[Fishbreath]

I have been thinking about crossing the atlantic solo One day.
The more i read here the more I think my plan of sleeping during the day and standing watch at night has not been tried .
I grew up on the pacific coast sailing and the atlantic seems much calmer if you avoid hurricanes. I read more sailors are killed by pissing off the back of the boat and failing overboard than being hit by other boats.
My big fear are rouge waves in the pacific there are waves that are huge and come out of nowhere. I love sailing by myself and have been out many time on my own.. two-three weeks with out people might be nice. as for egg timers and no sleep.. I’m planning like i said sleeping during the day …I’m a hammock ….with the collision alert set to loud.
am I crazy or do not all sail boat owners dream of just leaving on their own.. across the ocean?

[Hydra]

Welcome to CruisersForum, Fishbreath.

Alain

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Fishbreath

I have been thinking about crossing the atlantic solo One day.
The more i read here the more I think my plan of sleeping during the day and standing watch at night has not been tried .
I grew up on the pacific coast sailing and the atlantic seems much calmer if you avoid hurricanes. I read more sailors are killed by pissing off the back of the boat and failing overboard than being hit by other boats.
My big fear are rouge waves in the pacific there are waves that are huge and come out of nowhere. I love sailing by myself and have been out many time on my own.. two-three weeks with out people might be nice. as for egg timers and no sleep.. I’m planning like i said sleeping during the day …I’m a hammock ….with the collision alert set to loud.
am I crazy or do not all sail boat owners dream of just leaving on their own.. across the ocean?

I'm not sure that's how the human body works. I mean, it's conditioned to start shutting down at night when stimuli is low, but anyone can learn to swap that around which is what permanent shift workers do. But, I can't see hoe you can exclusively on a sail boat sleep during the day and stay up and sail all night.

To start with, your body will want to sleep at times, even for short periods at night and during the day it will want to get up, do things.

If anything. At all it makes much more sense and is more natural to hove too late at night when you can't do anymore, check everything, set your alarms and if you can sleep as long as you can then hove to.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by boatman61

Had my friends back in Oriental and www.towndock.net worried for a while...
Search 'Turnaround Phil' and/or 'Moondance' for their version..'04 and '05....

I just read the Turnaround Phil and your clearly a character.

Did you turn your exploits into a longer story telling? A book or video etc? Looks like it would be intriguing reading.

[Exile]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

I just read the Turnaround Phil and your clearly a character.

Did you turn your exploits into a longer story telling? A book or video etc? Looks like it would be intriguing reading.

Just a mere 15,000+ posts on CF for starters, most of which are quite entertaining.

[Fishbreath]

I guess my point is simple.. if you are going to get hit by other boat would it not be at night? when they can't see you in the dark.. you get away from shore and they tend to stand out. no? am I crazy to want to sail alone.

[secrabtree]

Originally Posted by Fishbreath

I guess my point is simple.. if you are going to get hit by other boat would it not be at night? when they can't see you in the dark.. you get away from shore and they tend to stand out. no? am I crazy to want to sail alone.

Fishbreath - sleeping at any time is not keeping continuous watch. The chances of seeing another boat on the horizon - if lit - is much better at night than during the day. A lit boat at night is easier to see and much more intrusive to a watch keeper than the same boat at the same distance, unless close, during the day. Even a large freighter at day is just another grey thing, like the distant sea, and is only recognizable by the shape. But at night there is a very sharp contrast between the darkness of the sky and sea vs. the navigation lights. And my experience is that those are often the dimmest lights on a freighter or fishing boat. And cruise ships show up like my birthday cake (80 years old) in a pitch dark room. Only when close is daytime visibility good, and by that time it is almost too late for a large freighter to change course. Do NOT rely upon them to keep clear. Even when watching they can't change course quickly. I've asked a freighter that I could see if he could see me. Answer: "Wait a minute and I'll take a look." And when I asked "Do I show up on your radar?" I often got the answer "Let me turn it on." These were ships that I could see in bright sunlight on a clear day. Just remember, if your boat and another are on collission courses that it is up to you to avoid the collission. If your vessel is the stand-on vessel you should contact the other vessel in adequate time, ask if he sees and is planning to avoid you. And offer, if it is a large ship, to allow him to maintain course and speed and you will keep clear. But don't rely on a big ship seeing you without you contacting him.

[El Pinguino]

Originally Posted by secrabtree

Fishbreath - sleeping at any time is not keeping continuous watch. The chances of seeing another boat on the horizon - if lit - is much better at night than during the day. A lit boat at night is easier to see and much more intrusive to a watch keeper than the same boat at the same distance, unless close, during the day. Even a large freighter at day is just another grey thing, like the distant sea, and is only recognizable by the shape. But at night there is a very sharp contrast between the darkness of the sky and sea vs. the navigation lights. And my experience is that those are often the dimmest lights on a freighter or fishing boat. ............................

What he said...except that during daylight once you get close you are just a white blob amongst the white caps...if the watchkeeper doesn't spot your sails against the sky you will be dangerously close before you are spotted...don't ask me how I know this.

Next time you see a ship look for her lifeboats... the little orange blobs below and behind her bridge....they are about the same size as your yacht... but your yacht is most probably white........

[hellosailor]

Fishbreath, we don't have rogue waves in the Altantic. We do have blue-green rogue waves though, and they are tall enough to have smashed in the upper bridge deck windows on the largest ocean liners.


So yes, the Altantic can chew you up and eat you without a hiccup.


Then there are icebergs, you can find out how far how many are seen every year and why liners often take substantially longer routes to avoid them. The northern routes are often significantly shorter.


Sleeping the daytime and sailing at night? Been done before. Of course, it means sailing fastest at night, when you can't see any debris like shipping containers that you might hit.


Sailing trans-oceanic solo, by day or night, east or west, is Russian Roulette. Many folks get away with it. Using the broader definitions of sanity and normal "needs", it is by definition insane. But if you want to do it, that's your prerogative. Just pay your bills before you go, so you don't impose a burden on anyone else if you hit that one loaded cylinder.


Take a good look at every study on fatigue and sleep cycles that has been done in the last hundred years. Every one of them says the odds are against you. Bigtime.

[mstrebe]

A couple of points:

The colregs are an international treaty used to determine proportion of fault after a collision. They are not laws. The Navigation Rules, as published by the USCG, are CFR laws on the inland rivers and coastal territorial waters of the United States. They are synchronized to the international colregs. This means that if you are violating rule 5 while within US territorial water, you are in fact breaking the law, but if you do it outside of US territorial water, you are merely creating evidence in the event of a collision and not breaking any law.

This isn't just a pedantic observation, it's an important distinction for an important reason: there is no one right way to keep watch in all situations while soloing. When you are near shore or in traffic separation schemes, constant watch is absolutely necessary to prevent collisions. Even while offshore here in SoCal we come bizarrely close to other boats multiple times per day on passages, as far as 50nm out. Wherever there are fishermen, there are boats to collide with.

But far offshore you will go weeks without seeing other boats excepting near to islands. Weeks. I've done four pacific crossings of 14,000 nm each, where my job was to track other vessels with extremely long range systems (500nm+) and gone weeks with no contacts at that range. During these far offshore passages, lack of quality sleep is a far greater danger than collision.

You have to be aware of your area, your proximity to any shore, and the presence of traffic, and you need to modify your watch-standing to suit conditions. Never sleep long enough to hit shore under any circumstance. Go far enough offshore to avoid traffic with certainty if you'll be sleeping during coastal passages.

I routinely ran the night watch, which on my ship and position was 6pm to 6am, and I generally only got four to six hours of sleep in the morning as the rest of the ship was up and working.

Stopping the boat at night during long offshore passages is pointless and won't prevent collision with another moving vessel. Not stopping a boat nearshore at night if you have to sleep is very dangerous--but so is sleeping at all.

Just my 2 cents.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by mstrebe

A couple of points:

The colregs are an international treaty used to determine proportion of fault after a collision. They are not laws. The Navigation Rules, as published by the USCG, are CFR laws on the inland rivers and coastal territorial waters of the United States. They are synchronized to the international colregs. This means that if you are violating rule 5 while within US territorial water, you are in fact breaking the law, but if you do it outside of US territorial water, you are merely creating evidence in the event of a collision and not breaking any law.

This isn't just a pedantic observation, it's an important distinction for an important reason: there is no one right way to keep watch in all situations while soloing. When you are near shore or in traffic separation schemes, constant watch is absolutely necessary to prevent collisions. Even while offshore here in SoCal we come bizarrely close to other boats multiple times per day on passages, as far as 50nm out. Wherever there are fishermen, there are boats to collide with.

But far offshore you will go weeks without seeing other boats excepting near to islands. Weeks. I've done four pacific crossings of 14,000 nm each, where my job was to track other vessels with extremely long range systems (500nm+) and gone weeks with no contacts at that range. During these far offshore passages, lack of quality sleep is a far greater danger than collision.

You have to be aware of your area, your proximity to any shore, and the presence of traffic, and you need to modify your watch-standing to suit conditions. Never sleep long enough to hit shore under any circumstance. Go far enough offshore to avoid traffic with certainty if you'll be sleeping during coastal passages.

I routinely ran the night watch, which on my ship and position was 6pm to 6am, and I generally only got four to six hours of sleep in the morning as the rest of the ship was up and working.

Stopping the boat at night during long offshore passages is pointless and won't prevent collision with another moving vessel. Not stopping a boat nearshore at night if you have to sleep is very dangerous--but so is sleeping at all.

Just my 2 cents.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

oh boy is this gonna open Pandora's box

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you.. But just wait and see what happens now.

[four winds]

Maybe it's just my eyesight, but I don't think typical sailboat running lights are at all visible at the distance of the horizon.

Travelling parallel courses with a buddy boat recently seemed to reinforce this for me. As our courses diverged, while adjusting the AP to dial in a parallel course, and my friends lights became too dim to see he was nowhere near horizon distance.

I asked him to light his sails; he became very visible then of course, and appeared to be only two or three miles away. Granted it's hard for me to judge distance on open water at night, but still nowhere near the distance of the horizon.

I have little confidence in the egg timer method for this reason.