Abandoning ICW (Mast Height) will I care ?

[hpeer]

I have 2 boats: 33’ and 44’
I have removed the mast in the 33’er a number of times, because circumstances required it. I have even dine it with just my Wife and I and travelled the Erie canal with it in deck.

I will not do it again unless required to. Its a real PITA. Ever time you risk damaging the roller furling gear, the mast itself and you. And you have to re-tune the rig.

I have not removed the 44’er mast, it is FAR, FAR heavier than the 33 mast, more complicated and everything is more expensive if you break something.

———

Our 44’ cutter is 62’ talk and 6-1/2 deep. We have travelled much of the ICW and up into the Delaware as well as the Bahamas. 62’ has not been an issue, but could be on a high tide. Much above 62’ and I would not be comfortable. Above 65’ is s a non-starter.

Either coming up the ICW or off shore hour last reasonable inlet is Beaufort, NC. There are at least two 65’ bridges between you and the further ICW, the NC Sounds, and more to the Chesapeake. Above 65’ and the Chesapeake requires rounding Cape Hatteras. It also prohibits the NC sounds.

I believe there are other inlets blocked by 65’ bridges, just not in the top of my head.

6-1/2’ is do able, but you may well run aground and need to be towed off. 6-1/2” is NOT a problem from Beaufort to the Chesapeake. I just did it and inly had one soft grounding and that was more because of an idiot poser boater. Yet they are something you need to contend with no matter how unfair.

6-1/2’ will be slightly limiting in the Bahamas, but it will not ruin the experience. Below the Bahamas draft, with rare exception is simply not an issue.

Being run out of the Carib by Covid restrictions we have taken shelter in the NC sounds. I personally would not want a boat that would make that region inaccessible.

All that said I don’t think 62’ (or close) and 6’ limitations will overly restrict your boat selection. There are many fine boats, even sloops, that fit that criteria.

————

And now to my personal band wagon…. LOD vs DISPLACEMENT.

I strongly suggest that you look at boats displacement as a better judge of size than LOD. For 2 similar boats the one with higher displacement will provide more storage space and tankage, which is really important. We are sort of at an extreme end of displacement and I find I need to look to a 50’ modern boat to get similar tankage and usable space as in our 44’er. Modern boats have really flat bilges so all equipment, tankage, and storage needs to go in under settee and similar spaces. Older boat with deeper bilges have more choices. So a shorter, older, heavier boat may meet your functional needs.

Lots to think about.

I hope this helps

Good luck.

[Jolly Roger]

Hpeers post is the most explicit which should help the OP. I entirely agree about displacement over draft.
My 1978Down East schooner is 45’ foot on deck and 14’ foot beam. That’s not as wide as some modern 45’ footers, but they don’t carry 325 gallons of water and 350 gallons of fuel, or have a 5’ foot deep x 22’ foot long bilge/engine room. Oh! and the keel can’t fall off either, because there isn’t one!
The trouble with modern designs is that they try to be all things to all people—a cruiser, a racer, a liveaboard, a charterer, etc. There’s nothing wrong with that per see, but they finish up not being ideal for any of those things, especially living accommodation and storage.
By the way, there’s nothing nicer than actually sailing through the bridges on the ICW, including Bascules when you get a cooperating operator.

[rslifkin]

In my mind, length, beam, and shape indicate how much usable volume you'll have for stuff. Displacement indicates how much heavy stuff you can reasonably carry. And heavier displacement boats will tend to have bigger tanks, etc. But heavy doesn't necessarily mean large volume.

[GreenWave]

Originally Posted by Chotu

You don’t?

Well, I do.

I did it all by myself without so much as a crane operator or even a powered crane.

I suppose some people are afraid to, but that’s a different story.

I am surprised by some of the other comments as well. Has no one done an inland trip before? The whole thing is done with the mast on the deck through locks and canals. Pretty standard procedure.

And a boat with mast on deck will whoop every last one of you that has a mast up going down the ICW since theydon’t need to stop for the bridges. While you’re sitting there for half an hour waiting for that next lift, they just got 4 miles ahead of you, keeping pace with all the trawlers passing you by. How many bridges are there? Those extra miles while you are waiting add up quickly

And SeanD: good luck getting the right wind for the course that’s predefined by the narrow, twisting ICW channel to agree with your sail settings. LOL. NOBODY sails the icw. You try here an there on the perfect day, but then there is always that closed bridge to wait for or the next bend that puts you in irons. Everyone motors it. You do too. I’m familiar with your ideals about sailing and not motoring and I agree with them. They are precisely why the OP should get the good s sailing boat, not the boat with the mast chopped short for waiting for ICW bridges. But don’t tell me you’re sailing the whole icw. That’s just false. It’s not possible.

Chotu - with great respect you are the 5%!

[sailingunity]

We have a 47' ketch with a 6 foot draft and 62' mast height. We haven't had any problems with bridges, though a couple of bridges with 63' on the tide board got me a little nervous. Perhaps more importantly, we have 5 kids on board from 1 year to 10 years old, so the question is how "comfortable" do you want to be. Our boat has pilot berths, so everyone has a bed but not necessarily a cabin. As others have mentioned once you get above 50 feet you start getting slim pickings, but do you need that much space? A 42-44 foot cat would be quite comfortable and many of them are ICW friendly.

[theBigKahuna]

We have a 40' Leopard sailcat... just over 64' clearance and yes, there are places you will not get into. AVOID the Wilkerson Bridge in NC at all costs! Many bridges in the ICW do open as they're in municipal areas, low and a lot of large yachts need to get thru.

But I will guarantee you, going under an 'ICW compliant' bridge clearance of 65' is a major sphincter alert.... every time! Just time your passage with the tides, pray the bridge has a clearance board to look at and practice your zen.

Cheers!
jBrad
sv Fuzzy Logic

[Sailorman97]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

it beats me why anyone with a 50' sailboat would want to travel the ICW north or south...take it outside...

This ^^^^^^. Why would you want to motor for hours and hours when you could sail for quite a few less hours. First the ICW is pretty twisty in some places. Second you need to wait for bridges. Third your speed limited. Large mono hulls will sail faster than they can power. Fourth you don't burn diesel fuel while sailing.

My air draft is 65 ft. I am not concerned. We will go outside.

[Jweyndling]

A catamaran is the way to go. Loads more space for your family, shallower draft and if you don’t go bigger than about 42’ your mast should still be ok for ICW. With three small kids onboard you are very unlikely to be sailing to windward a lot. You spend and at least 80% of your time at anchor and that is when a cat really makes life easier.

[Kaptain Ken]

Have I got a deal for you!!! Back in 2007, along with friends of ours we bought a new Lagoon 440. It came with a 70' bridge clearance mast. The dealer worked with me and got me the design detail of the mast and rigging. Catamarans all seem to have a fractional rig; i.e., while the mainsail goes to the top floor, the head sail(s) top out around 80% of the way up.

It was about this time that the last of the monohull America's Cup races were being held and they introduced the world to "square top" mainsails. It occurred to be as an architect (by education - a Land Planner & Golf Course Architect by profession) that if we cut the mast off just above where the head sail halyard block(s) and standing rigging are located, that we would end up with and overall bridge clearance of just under 65'. We were very fortunate that the boat came with Doyle sails and that there was a Doyle loft only 10 miles up I-95 from where the dealer was setting up our boat. They were able to "square" the top and we ended up only losing about 30 sq.ft. of mainsail at the very top. In effect, we went from a "fractional" rig to a "masthead" rig. If you get in touch with me, I'll send you a couple of photos of our boat under sail.

As an aside, we sold our L440 one month before Hurricane Mathew hit our area and pretty much destroyed the marina where our boat had been located. I have been researching what it would cost to do the same procedure on another L440 or a newer L42. I've gotten prices of between $8,000 and $10,000, all inclusive. Our boat came with two additional headsail halyards (in addition to the normal genoa halyard), so we can have our Code 0 up and furled and still hoist our asymmetrical spinnaker. If the boat I eventually buy does not have this feature, I would add it during this process.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Sailorman97

This ^^^^^^. Why would you want to motor for hours and hours when you could sail for quite a few less hours. First the ICW is pretty twisty in some places. Second you need to wait for bridges. Third your speed limited. Large mono hulls will sail faster than they can power. Fourth you don't burn diesel fuel while sailing.

My air draft is 65 ft. I am not concerned. We will go outside.

Going outside you miss the unreal landscape and the "off the wall" wildlife. We've done both in and out.

In is a wonderful ride - so is out if the weather is ok

We have a 63 foot air and a 7 foot keel so going inside is not easy for us but we never regretted doing it

[Island Time O25]

A year ago was helping a friend move 45' sailboat with 4.5' draft from Ft. Laud to Green Harbor via ICW. Half way through we soft grounded over area marked on all charts as 7'+. Good thing it was late in the day and we were off first thing in the morning at daybreak. But had to sleep with 45degree tilt. Not fun.

We tried sailing outside at the start but the wind and tide countrary to Gulfstream made the sail very uncomfortable for even hardy souls. So we ducked back in at WPB. But otherwise, especially if pressed for time, outside would be my 1st choice for any boat drawing more than 4'. Don't assume the ICW chart depths are correct.

[Ninedotsix]

Originally Posted by MicHughV

it beats me why anyone with a 50' sailboat would want to travel the ICW north or south...take it outside...

I appreciate the OP and comments, many thanks.

As for the quoted post, it makes me think of crew wanting time ashore.

And, another matter is the ages of the family members, and how long will those youngsters be part of the plan, before they scatter and start experimenting with their own lives away from the nuclear family?

It all happens faster than one can imagine!

Of course, with the girls, a convenient boat to fly-in to with their friend(s) for Spring Break could be a thing, but unless they are committed sailors, that may be more short term, if at all.

I certainly admire the range of choices you seem to have available, and hope you'll keep the forum updated as you progress.

Fair Winds
Pete

[thataway41]

We cruised a pilot house ketch with main mast at 62.5' air draft, (plus VHF antenna, which went "tingaling" a times under bridges) with 6.5' draft up and down the ICW (plus outside trips). That boat can be configured with 3 or 4 private staterooms. We have also tabernacled a 60' mast using a Holmes tow truck 12,000# capacity winch on the cabin top, which allowed one person to bring the mast up or down to about 10' off the deck.

Are you planning to leave the boat in Florida during Hurricane season? That may also be an issue; perhaps if it is on the hard, it might be less expensive.

[CHM]

I have been sailing the central Florida coast for over 10 years and have. 43 foot Beneteau with a 55 ft mast and 5.5 foot draft. There is almost no decent sailing in the channel except the Indian and Banana Rivers around Merritt Island. Otherwise, you deal with bridges and the Canaveral Locks which are not always open. If you elect to purchase a monohull that draws more than 6 feet and cannot clear the tall bridges due to mast height, you will be limited as to where and when you can travel along the Florida coast. It is certainly possible to get by with these vessels, but again you will be limited as to where you can go for fuel, service, food etc. I have run aground in marked channels at low tide so don’t rely on what you read on the charts. There is tremendous current and shoaling in many of the navigable inlets and channels except Canaveral. Cape Marina is outside the locks and a great place for boats that cannot go inside if you need a yard to store your boat. Ponce Inlet is unforgiving and you have a low draw bridge in New Smyrna and a high bridge going north in Port Orange. There is only one functional boatyard accessible in this area. Interestingly, Lighthouse Point to Fort Lauderdale is more accessible because there are a bunch of draw bridges you can go through and depth isn’t an issue. Personally, I would not buy a boat where that couldn’t travel the ICW for convenience. Multihull is a good choice for many reasons with the one limitation being fitting in a slip. Even side tying to a dock can be an issue depending on the adjacent channel. Still a minor inconvenience.

[RLMM]

Originally Posted by Electricsnail

Hey all, been lurking for about a 18 months since I bought a clapped out Morgan Classic 41’6”. Spent a few months getting it float worthy and then spent last winter cruising down the ICW and some offshore with my wife, a 7yo 5yo and 2yo. We had a rough year fixing and moving all the time covering 1600 miles in our on again off again journey (we live in NY and spend about 3 months a year on the boat). Definitely beat everyone up.

We have fixed everything on our Morgan and it has been a great proof of concept for the family. This season we have been cruising the Bahamas. Much more enjoyable and we haven’t been in a rush to put too many miles on.

We have decided to sell the Morgan as it’s just too crammed for everyone. But one thing we loved is the ability to reasonably inexpensively leave the boat in the mooring fields in Vero Beach and Fort Meyer ($350ish a month is basically free storage)

As we look at upgrading to a more modern 50-55’ mono or a 42-45 cat (whole other discussion). My real question is how much will I be limiting my ability to find somewhere to keep the boat with a mast height over 64’. We have been keeping the boat in Florida as it’s convenient to get nonstop flights from NY to FL. We eventually will start moving the boat down through the islands slowly and to Central America. But I think keeping the boat in Florida during the 9 months a year we aren’t live aboard will make sense.

Those who have made the move up, any regrets? I don’t mind spending more keeping the boat at a dock but it seems pretty hard these day to find a good situation anywhere. What do you guys say? Family of 5 with 3 growing girls I just don’t think there are many choices that will provide us more comfort without abandoning the 64’ bridge heights…..and I’d hate to move into a power boat

Thanks in advance!

My sense is that in 10 years, 7,5, and 2 will be 17,15,annd 12. Their wants and needs would be my primary consideration.