A little personal history with an honest question....

[Greaph]

Originally Posted by sailormed

I hope she doesn’t read this, but AFAIK every electric winch can be operated manually with the standard handle.

If the rig is too much for her to operate using manual winches, how is she to use the manual backup on an electric winch to operate the rig? There is an upper limit for a 5'6" tall slightly built homosapien, no matter how active a lifestyle.

[AiniA]

On our Bristol the original purchaser had added Lewmar 65s as primary winches and moved the 55s to be secondary cockpit winches. These huge winches are frightfully expensive (years ago I checked the price of 2 65s and 2 55s and it was more than US$13000, which lead to us getting all the winches rechromed, but I digress) but wonderful. My wife, who is an, older athletic 5'3" had no problem handling our #2 Genoa even when the wind got up. Our (furling) main could be handled from either end. Behind the wheel with a large, Harken multi-block system. Under the dodger with a winch. We almost never used the winch since the block was much faster.

Manual backups for powered winches are not that large but you can always furl in a large chunk of sail to reduce loads. The likelihood of a powered winch failing exists, but is not likely. In the event of failure you can make do.

[Greaph]

I could use 1/2 mile sheets and run a 3 fold purchase on all sheets and halyards I guess. I hadn't really considered that. (The half mile comment was in jest, I realise i would only need roughly 300' halyards and 130' sheets on most vessels to accomplish a 3 fold purchase for the main). That would almost require external running rigging on all the halyards though. I'm probably making a bigger issue out of the halyards than it is. Biggest issue for her watchstanding would be sheet handling. It bears more thought. I appreciate the thoughts and soundingboard.
I am an engineer and I tend to overthink, it's good to recall that.

[DDabs]

Was just about to say, I think you're starting to wander into the overthinking zone lol

[Greaph]

Those are probably larger than any vessel I want to own would probably need. I was thinking 4x lewmar 48 for the main and jib, 2x lewmar 30 for the mizzen, and undecided for the sheets. Ketch rigs are generally easy to handle.

Still. I try to keep an open mind. Thank you for the input.

[AiniA]

Originally Posted by Greaph

Those are probably larger than any vessel I want to own would probably need. I was thinking 4x lewmar 48 for the main and jib, 2x lewmar 30 for the mizzen, and undecided for the sheets. Ketch rigs are generally easy to handle.

Still. I try to keep an open mind. Thank you for the input.

Are those winches for halyards or sheets? On a ketch you would not need winches for main and mizzen sheets. Our mainsheet was really long but the price of the mainsheet and various blocks was less than a winch. Jib winches are typically much larger than main winches because of the higher loads involved.

[Greaph]

Every vessel I have owned or sailed on (save my Grandfather's fishing dory) had winches for the sheets. I am sure with adequate blocking that winches are optional, and I would absolutely have the main sheets at the minimum with at least 2 fold purchase, but for me, winches are peace of mind and a convenience. All sheets and halyards will run to the cockpit (single hand setup) with a winch for every line. It is just my preference. Repair kits for all winch types on the boat, and backup lines and block and tackle should a winch become non serviceable.
While a ketch (generally) has a lower main than a marconi rig, it often has a longer boom, making winches a boon for smaller dimensioned people while sheet handling during a blow.
As I envision it, even the flying jib and fisherman's staysails would have dedicated tackle. It's just what I am used too, and now prefer. I know there is nothing *wrong* with powered winches, but I have a definate bias against them. And absolutely nothing to base that bias on. No boat I've sailed with that was so equipped ever had one fail. None of this is a requirement for purchase. I will almost certainly re-rig whatever vessel we purchase, not to re-invent the wheel, but rather give me a setup that provides me with (real or imagined peace of mind). I am 6'3" 225lbs long term combat arms veteran and tend to underestimate the strength, endurance and tenacity of those that are considerably smaller (my own failing). In short, I worry too much.

[Greaph]

I am also a huge fan of boomgallows. I cannot understand how anyone can do without them (with the possible exception of racing vessels).

[DDabs]

What would you really need boom gallows for on a vessel with a rigid boom vang or topping lift?

[mvmojo]

Owned/sailed a Whitby 42 ketch for 6 years in the Caribbean. Thought it was a very well built (Ted Brewer design) boat. They're getting pretty old now so can likely be purchased well within your budget (but I haven't looked). Easy to work on, great engine access.

[Godshalk]

For an "ode to the ketch" see Fatty Goodlander's article in April Cruising World.

[Greaph]

Originally Posted by DDabs

What would you really need boom gallows for on a vessel with a rigid boom vang or topping lift?

I never said you needed them, although I dont race my cruisers and thus don't feel the need to equip them with boom vangs. I simply prefer them, and find them useful for other purposes.

[Greaph]

The Whitby 42 has been on my radar for a while. I've never sailed one, but they seem too beamy and the draft too shallow. I'm afraid they would sail like the big Morgan floating condos, but I have no actual experience to base this on.

[MIRELOS]

Sailed a Lord Nelson 35 from 1986 to 2011, built like the like a brick house, never had a problem, my two sons grew up on her, she is for sale now, I highly recommend the Taiwan boats of that design and era, they were all overbuilt, won't win around the buoys races but will get you there safely

[John DeLong]

Greaph,
Can I ask you about your Shannon 38 - you mention that your roll resulted in a cracked hull? Can you describe the particulars of the damage? Did this vessel have a keel or the keel/centerboard?


Thanks.