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Old 18-02-2018, 12:27   #31
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pirate Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

The rigging of an Opti is not going to get in your way.. there is none..
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Old 18-02-2018, 13:11   #32
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Let me be a little more specific than Boatman :-)

The mast sticks into a socket, so to speak, and can be very easily lifted out entirely. Because of the way the sprit is attached to the mast, the sprit and the entire sail comes out with the mast when you "unship" it. There is no wire rigging to steady the mast in the boat, so the mast slips right out. You would then lay the rigging along the one side of the boat lashing it down so it wouldn't go overboard.

The OPTI is too little to be stable if you stand up in it. It is almost guaranteed that if you do, it will capsize, or at least wobble so much that you will fall overboard. That is true of any 8-foot boat. So you'd have to ship and unship the rigging sitting down.

Rowlocks are always removable. Rowlocks are the "forks" that go around the "loom" (the shaft) of the oar. They "ship" into (are put into) a boat by "shanks" that stick into holes in a reinforced part of the side of the boat. But if you already have rowboat you'll know already how that works. To fit rowlocks to a boat that doesn't have them is a very simple thing. A couple of "cheeks" cut from ordinary 2 x 10 (grain running vertical) screwed and glued to the hull just below the coamings would do the job.

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Old 18-02-2018, 14:11   #33
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan:

Correction to #32:

Should read "...(grain running HORIZONTAL)... in the second last line

The reason is that you want the ENDGRAIN of the wood in the cheeks to take the strain generated by the oars.

Somebody distrated me as was proofreading. Sorry :-)!
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Old 18-02-2018, 15:00   #34
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Not unlike you, my daughter wanted a boat of her own. So we bought a beat up old LASER. First we scrubbed it clean. Then we spent a day or so doing fiberglass repairs. Another day reinforcing the sail with sail tape and renewing the running rigging. And finally we built a trailer (mostly out of 2x4s) to pull the boat behind her bike. The whole thing cost only a few hundred dollars plus a few days of sweat equity. Having repaired the boat herself, I believe she was far more attached to her boat than many sailors. She sailed it often as she could, and when it was time to sell, she got all her (my) money back. It was a very positive experience overall. So whatever path you take, there is lots to learn and lots to be gained by the effort.

As a side note, slightly off topic, she bought her laser from Jeff Boyd, Canadian Laser sailing champion from about a billion years ago.
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Old 19-02-2018, 10:45   #35
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ok nice, sounds like my idea is possible then

Next thing is, I spoke to my Dad about my sailing ideas, having previously talked about getting a kayak for similar purposes. He said "How doesn't any water leak through that HOLE you'll be cutting in the bottom of it?" (meaning the centreboard) I answered saying that I'm not sure, but I think the board is a tight fit, it's the same on all the boat plans I've seen so mustn't be a problem. So I'm thinking now myself... how does this work?

Something I thought of in school today about my rowlocks, was toying around with the idea of a g-clamp type thing with the locks on them? Any suggestions?

Hamburking the satisfaction with this project I'm sure I'll have if I get to do it will be immense for sure, looking forward to it.

Otherwise the latest is I'm just speaking to everyone right now, soon I'll start planning my building if everything goes well which I'll be sure to keep up on here for advice.

Heard that when fitting the chines I should soak them before bending, then clamp them to get the shape into them before properly fixing them. What about this?
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Old 19-02-2018, 10:56   #36
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanshaw View Post
Ok nice, sounds like my idea is possible then

Next thing is, I spoke to my Dad about my sailing ideas, having previously talked about getting a kayak for similar purposes. He said "How doesn't any water leak through that HOLE you'll be cutting in the bottom of it?" (meaning the centreboard) I answered saying that I'm not sure, but I think the board is a tight fit, it's the same on all the boat plans I've seen so mustn't be a problem. So I'm thinking now myself... how does this work?

Something I thought of in school today about my rowlocks, was toying around with the idea of a g-clamp type thing with the locks on them? Any suggestions?

Hamburking the satisfaction with this project I'm sure I'll have if I get to do it will be immense for sure, looking forward to it.

Otherwise the latest is I'm just speaking to everyone right now, soon I'll start planning my building if everything goes well which I'll be sure to keep up on here for advice.

Heard that when fitting the chines I should soak them before bending, then clamp them to get the shape into them before properly fixing them. What about this?
Son, get some experience!
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Old 19-02-2018, 11:13   #37
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Another friendly suggestion: Start a youtube channel so we can follow your planning and progress. If you go Patreon, you might even get some money out of it. I'm sure there are some here who think you might fail, but there is also the chance you might Susan Boyle the thing out of the ballpark. At the very least, you have sparked our interest, and I for one would be eager to follow along.
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Old 19-02-2018, 12:08   #38
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan:

Glad to hear that you are pressing on

Quote: "How doesn't any water leak through that HOLE you'll be cutting in the bottom of it?" (meaning the centreboard) I answered saying that I'm not sure,..."

Here's your answer: The centreboard sits in a box called a "trunk". The sides of this box are clued to the inside bottom of the hull, and they rise up within the hull higher than the waterline of the laden boat. There is water within the box when the boat is afloat, but it doesn't rise up high enuff to slop over into the hull. Well, sometimes it does a little when you are sailing hard, but then you just bail it out. You keep a homemade bailer in the boat for the purpose :-)

The centreboard is fairly tight within the trunk - what's called a "slip fit". It is hinged on a bolt that goes right through the trunk from one side to the other, and under the head and the nut on the bolt are what's called "fender washers" - large diameter flat washers - and under them are rubber "grommets" that prevent water from seeping in. All really, really simple.

You don't need rowlocks at all. No need to spend money :-) When I was your age, in a distant, rather poor land, the fisherfolk didn't waste money of boughten rowlocks. They used "thole pins". A thole pin is just a dowel made from a bit of oak or other tough wood and set in a hole in the gunnel ("gun wale"). The pin gives you the fulcrum you need to transfer your pull on the oars to the hull of the boat so it will move. The oars just rest on the gunnels and ride up against the tholes. You control the "back stroke" by having a loop of fairly light line that goes around the thole and the "loom" (the shaft) of the oar. Nothing to it and dirt cheap. The little loop you can make from any "three strand" rope ("line"), even that cheap and nasty yellow polypropylene line you can buy for hardly any money at your local hardware store. You splice the ends of a short piece together so you get a loop called a "grommet". Doing that will teach you the fundamental sailors' skill of splicing :-)

As for soaking (let alone steaming) wood to bend it, yes, that WAS proper boat building practice in days of yore, but you are not building a yacht, so there are better ways of doing it. Wetting and steaming are antiquated methods in part because timber that is amenable to that treatment is obtainable only at great cost these days. Back when this method was used, glues were never really waterproof so the technique of laminating could not be used. With modern, totally waterproof glues like epoxy you'd laminate any piece with a decent curve to it. So for example if you need a piece that it 1 1/4" thick, for instance for gunnels on a dinghy, you make five "laths" that are 1/4" thick. Then you stack them one of top of the other with glue between the layers and clamp or screw them in place till the glue is dry. When you take the clamps off or the screws out you will have a beautifully curved piece that you can trim, sand, and finish before you put it back in its place. If fact, I'm going to use that technique to make a new rubbing strake for TrentePieds this summer.

Meaning no disrespect to your friends, I think you should probably do a lot of reading on boatbuilding. We can work up a reading list together if you like :-) Your local library will get the books in for you via "interlibrary loan" if necessary. For specific technical questions I'm sure that you'll be far better off asking here, or on forums dedicated to boat and dinghy building, than by asking at school :-)!

Give us a rough idea of where you live so we can know roughly what kinda materials you'll have easy access to?

TP
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Old 19-02-2018, 13:02   #39
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
Ryan:

Glad to hear that you are pressing on

Quote: "How doesn't any water leak through that HOLE you'll be cutting in the bottom of it?" (meaning the centreboard) I answered saying that I'm not sure,..."

Here's your answer: The centreboard sits in a box called a "trunk". The sides of this box are clued to the inside bottom of the hull, and they rise up within the hull higher than the waterline of the laden boat. There is water within the box when the boat is afloat, but it doesn't rise up high enuff to slop over into the hull. Well, sometimes it does a little when you are sailing hard, but then you just bail it out. You keep a homemade bailer in the boat for the purpose :-)

The centreboard is fairly tight within the trunk - what's called a "slip fit". It is hinged on a bolt that goes right through the trunk from one side to the other, and under the head and the nut on the bolt are what's called "fender washers" - large diameter flat washers - and under them are rubber "grommets" that prevent water from seeping in. All really, really simple.

You don't need rowlocks at all. No need to spend money :-) When I was your age, in a distant, rather poor land, the fisherfolk didn't waste money of boughten rowlocks. They used "thole pins". A thole pin is just a dowel made from a bit of oak or other tough wood and set in a hole in the gunnel ("gun wale"). The pin gives you the fulcrum you need to transfer your pull on the oars to the hull of the boat so it will move. The oars just rest on the gunnels and ride up against the tholes. You control the "back stroke" by having a loop of fairly light line that goes around the thole and the "loom" (the shaft) of the oar. Nothing to it and dirt cheap. The little loop you can make from any "three strand" rope ("line"), even that cheap and nasty yellow polypropylene line you can buy for hardly any money at your local hardware store. You splice the ends of a short piece together so you get a loop called a "grommet". Doing that will teach you the fundamental sailors' skill of splicing :-)

As for soaking (let alone steaming) wood to bend it, yes, that WAS proper boat building practice in days of yore, but you are not building a yacht, so there are better ways of doing it. Wetting and steaming are antiquated methods in part because timber that is amenable to that treatment is obtainable only at great cost these days. Back when this method was used, glues were never really waterproof so the technique of laminating could not be used. With modern, totally waterproof glues like epoxy you'd laminate any piece with a decent curve to it. So for example if you need a piece that it 1 1/4" thick, for instance for gunnels on a dinghy, you make five "laths" that are 1/4" thick. Then you stack them one of top of the other with glue between the layers and clamp or screw them in place till the glue is dry. When you take the clamps off or the screws out you will have a beautifully curved piece that you can trim, sand, and finish before you put it back in its place. If fact, I'm going to use that technique to make a new rubbing strake for TrentePieds this summer.

Meaning no disrespect to your friends, I think you should probably do a lot of reading on boatbuilding. We can work up a reading list together if you like :-) Your local library will get the books in for you via "interlibrary loan" if necessary. For specific technical questions I'm sure that you'll be far better off asking here, or on forums dedicated to boat and dinghy building, than by asking at school :-)!

Give us a rough idea of where you live so we can know roughly what kinda materials you'll have easy access to?

TP

Yes, good stuff - didn't mention speaking to my friends though, I wouldn't take their advice anyway, which is why I'm on here.

So going with the plans for the Opti (Wooden Optimist: Original Clearwater Plans), there are no laths and in the video in this playlist, part 4, at about 2mins 30secs is where I heard about the soaking.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...GWLXCtOll-5Qug

The playlist is on my empty YouTube channel if you'd like to subscribe, guess I could throw some building videos together when the time comes.

I live near Edinburgh, in Scotland. I looked online for used dinghies, Lasers, Enterprises, Optis, the works and the nearest are all down in England, frankly farther than I'd like to travel. Hence why, despite the comments about going sailing first and getting experience, I have decided to remain steadfast in building my own - because of my own fishing reasons, and the lack of used boats near me.

The system for rowing that was mentioned is actually similar to what is on my rowboat just now, I just call them rowlocks anyway. Some coincidence that the idea for my rowlocks before I thought of the clamps was to drill a hole in the gunwales to accept a pin, based on what is on my boat at the minute. I'll post a pic.
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Old 19-02-2018, 15:05   #40
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrentePieds View Post
The centreboard sits in a box called a "trunk". The sides of this box are clued to the inside bottom of the hull, and they rise up within the hull higher than the waterline of the laden boat. There is water within the box when the boat is afloat, but it doesn't rise up high enuff to slop over into the hull.
You might consider a daggerboard rather than a centreboard. Its just simpler, I think.

According to his famous book, Joshua Slocum bought a boat in a farmer's field for a dollar (1usd) and spent a year rebuilding it. During that time he had no shortage of people come by telling him what he SHOULD do, and what he was doing wrong (not unlike CF). Each of them assuring him that the severity of his error would surely end in disaster. Despite all the excellent advice to the contrary, he still somehow managed to sail his little boat around the the world, alone. In his own words, "he heard little complaint from the crew".

You may want to add Sailing Alone Around the World to your reading list.

Sincere best wishes to you. I admire your ambition and your goals.
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Old 19-02-2018, 15:10   #41
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Oh yeah, my mistake, never realised a daggerboard and a centreboard are different... on the plans it is a daggerboard, indeed simpler.
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Old 19-02-2018, 15:13   #42
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

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Oh yeah, my mistake, never realised a daggerboard and a centreboard are different... on the plans it is a daggerboard, indeed simpler.
NP. You know how sailors are...they have their own special word for everything!
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Old 19-02-2018, 15:21   #43
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan. I see that you seem to getting very complex with your thought process. Even to the point of confusion.

Personally if I give advice and it is not taken I don't get concerned offend. Yet As a proponent of youth education I write to make the following points.

The best way to get started on a lifetime of sailing is by aquiring a traditional Sailing dinghy and getting out on the water.

If you have any aspirations of becoming a boat or yacht designer...learn to sail first on vessels that those who have lived before you have produced.

If you have aspirations of becoming a boat builder as a career join a company that will sign you up as an apprentice. Taking a course at a boat building school might go a long way toward acceptance by a reputable company.

There is currently an over supply of all sizes and types of boats on the market in almost every part of the world. So that is virtually impossible for you to build anything for less money than you could spend getting something small that Is ready to use.

Now finally the reason I suggested the Mirror Dinghy was that I bought a kit myself and had my Father. ( Who was a shipwright in the British Royal Navy) built it in 64 hours.

We we rowed it. Or Drove it with a minus British Seagull out board. 49 cc

Cought many fish from it.

And sailed it out on the English Channel for several years and over 1.000 miles. Often carried three people.

It has a Gunter rig that keeps the spars short for stowage. Has two mast steps so it can be Cat rigged with main sail only.

Is designed to be carried on the top of a car. Lifted up by two people. But We made a trailer for ours.

Seldom is anything designed that is as versatile as this. It was incredibly well thought out from building method to function in very tough weather.

They went on to design larger version's such as the Mirror 16 that probably sailed with better performance but much versertility was lost in the process.
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Old 19-02-2018, 16:17   #44
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

As part of laying out a shopping list I ask whether to have a wooden or aluminium mast - what are the advantages and disadvantages, if any?

What are airbags actually for?

Also what is the difference between the two types of cleat?

Now, I realise that I need to learn to sail, and that you guys don't have to tell me anything or help me at all, but please remember that I do not want to be a boat builder by trade, but I do want to build a boat and sail it. Both are, to me, separate experiences that I want to have, whether I succeed or fail.
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Old 19-02-2018, 16:55   #45
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pirate Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Air bags are to stop the boat sinking if you capsize.. The black object is not a cleat its a rope jammer.. the teeth are there to stop appropriate size rope from running through.
The stainless object is a cleat.. you tie your line off with figure of eight loops.
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