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Old 17-02-2018, 11:09   #16
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pirate Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

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Boatman61, the resolution of the picture you posted is too coarse to read the caption. Would you please find & post a (much) higher resolution version? adTHANKSvance
Do not know if this will work but here goes.. and if it does not here's the wiki link.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sail

No joy.. use the link..
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Old 17-02-2018, 11:48   #17
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

I agree with the advice to start with a proven plan. You will learn a lot and finish up with something you know should sail well. As a novice, if you build you own design and it performs poorly you will not know if it is the boat or your sailing technique. If you want to play with sail design have a look at this program, it is free and fun and does produce good sails. X-SailcutCAD, look it up on Google for a download. To make (or repair) sails you will need a specialist sewing machine which will cost. If you get one you can then get into either making sails (try Sail rite) from a precut pattern or you can often buy used ones the you can recut or reshape. Look for 'special sails' like light weather or heavy weather ones. These often spend most of their life in the sail locker so the canvas is still good. Used 'working sails get, well used, an the canvas is often badly stretched and dead. Good luck and have fun. I started this way 40 odd years ago by building a kit canoe and paddle down the river to the sea, a three day trip, and still sailing today.
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Old 17-02-2018, 12:12   #18
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Thanks everyone, the ball is really rolling now.

I saw the PDRacer mentioned earlier and liked the idea, but not the look or how quickly I could build it. I'd like to have a boat that's easy to make, but just hard enough, and it looks like the Opti hits the sweet spot.

It was said that the Opti might not 'fit' me as well as a bigger boat, such as an Enterprise class, but unfortunately due to transportation limitations a 7-8' boat is the best I can do, which suits me for now (to learn with until, or if, I get fully into sailing).

So looks like I'm gonna build an Opti, but does this mean I have to have it checked out and everything because it's in a class? Is this so for every boat? (I live in Scotland). Does the fact it is an 'Opti' mean I can't just whip it up in my yard and take it out?

Next, I'd like to have a lateen rig. Will this work on an Opti?
If I buy sails from, say, here - Finished PolySails - PolySail International will these do?

Thanks again everyone, shows to me that forums aren't, after all, dead
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Old 17-02-2018, 13:20   #19
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan,

Do you want to be a boat builder or a sailor. Both are fine.

Just so you know you can buy a used dinghy for less than the cost of the
materials. You will learn a lot by refurbishing an old one.
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Old 17-02-2018, 13:42   #20
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

The Enterprise was commissioned by the British news paper Daily Express to get middle class family's involved in Sailing which back in those days was something of an elitist sport.

The Daily Mirror was more of a working class publication. So they asked Barry Bucknell who was involved with the BBC TV program this old House to design a simple sailing craft that any ametur could build with simple tools.

Barry came up with the stitch and glue method where fibre glass tape sealed the seams with polyester resin.

Kits were produced by Bell woodworking. Holt/ provided the rigging. I expect that the drawings are still available somewhere.and at 11 feet long the original mirror dinghy is a very seaworthy Craft to sail.row or motor. Whilst being perfect for me youth to learn on.

So that would be my recommendation.

BTW. Titebond 11 is not a water proof glue. Neither is Titebond three. Put a test joint in water for a few days and try it before you argument with Me
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Old 17-02-2018, 14:34   #21
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan:

I agree that the Mirror is a wonderful little boat. It sort of falls in between the Optimist and the Enterprise, and at 11 feet would be just about the right length for you. It's a perfect introduction to boat building and to sailing. In England people actually go cruising in them, in the sense that they go long distances and camp out on the beach :-)

Unfortunately, I think the Class Association has now discontinued the sale of plans to homebuilders, although kits are available at some few thousand dollars a whack :-)! All the various class associations have discontinued the sale of plans because they want to control the standards of the individual boats very, very tightly. My plans for the Enterprise perished in the building of them. Else I'd let you have them :-)

But go here:

Mirror Builders Guide

to learn about the Mirror in all is aspects. The fact that the site is Canadian doesn't matter because the boat is used worldwide, and each country has its own Class Association and the Class Rules are the same from country to country because the boats are used in international competitions.

CoastalExplorer warned you against TiteBond glue ("Carpenters' Glue", "Yellow Glue") not being waterproof. Quite right. I don't think anybody uses TiteBond in boats any more. Epoxy based glues are what we use these days, for a whole lot of reasons, and there are dozens and dozens of brands. Epoxy resins have their dangers, and when you get to that stage, you might like to come back and talk to us about that.

Someone asked if you want to be a boat builder or a sailor. That question had been in my mind also. They are two different beasts though sometimes the coexist in the same person. How best to spend your scarce money depends on which of the two you want to be - or whether you want to be both :-)!

TP
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Old 17-02-2018, 14:48   #22
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

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Originally Posted by Scaramanga F25 View Post
Ryan,



...Just so you know you can buy a used dinghy for less than the cost of the

materials...


This is good advice.
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Old 17-02-2018, 17:00   #23
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

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Hi, I've been searching the web a few days for info on small dinghies, my idea is to build one.

Now, I've made some drawings to keep me right, although I have no idea how well such a thing would sail, if at all, because I don't know about correct sail sizing to draught and length etc. This is where I need help. I am 16 looking to start and learn sailing, having never done any before. Therefore I don't want to be setting any speed records, just a small, easy to sail boat that I can make without too much hassle.

I am open to suggestions about rigging types for this criteria, as I assume the hull is a fairly universal thing.

Thanky you, I'll post photos of my idea.
Ryan-
You rock! But ...

Building a dinghy will teach you about building dinghies. My first sailboat was a 12' styrofoam boat called a SeaSnark. I sailed the heck out of that little boat that I bought for $50 at a garage sale. Sailed in LI Sound, lakes, etc. for five years. Get on a boat and learn to sail. Unless you really want to learn about building dinghies.

Of course, I now have a 30 year old 36' sailboat with crappy woodwork that I do as little as possible to maintain- I sail and do as little boat work as I absolutely must. Consider the source.

Fred
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Old 17-02-2018, 19:39   #24
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

My favorite small boat design is the Scamp. Most are home built & it's a 12' boat you can actually cruise in.

https://www.facebook.com/SmallCraftA...gazineProject/

SCAMP Sailboat - Small Craft Advisor
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Old 18-02-2018, 05:21   #25
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

So, this just in, the biggest boat I can have without a trailer is 6' long...

No idea how to make this work as I definitely can't afford to fit my Dad's van out with a tow bar, buy a trailer and a boat.

Not sure 6' will even cut it for me? Are there any other options?
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Old 18-02-2018, 05:43   #26
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pirate Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

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So, this just in, the biggest boat I can have without a trailer is 6' long...

No idea how to make this work as I definitely can't afford to fit my Dad's van out with a tow bar, buy a trailer and a boat.

Not sure 6' will even cut it for me? Are there any other options?
I guess you are saying the only way to transport it is cartopping..
If that's the case you should be good up to 8 to 10ft.. unless car top rules are different in the States.
In the UK this 17ft Wharram cat is seen on car tops of larger estate type cars and vans like Ford Transits.

https://www.wharram.com/site/catalog...esigns/hitia17

Keep the build light with ply, epoxy and glass and you should be able to manhandle it alone if you have to..
I owned a Tiki 21 which I carried on a trailer and two of us could easily lift and carry each hull off the trailer for assembly and launching..
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Old 18-02-2018, 06:21   #27
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ok, panic averted and thanks for the suggestion boatman, never thought of cartopping. The way I was thinking was putting it in the back of the van, which is quite small (a Peugeot Partner), although thinking now the idea of a roof rack is much better because -

The van is like a family campervan type deal, and taking the boat in the back would be good because I could actually take it, but bad because there wouldn't be much room for the other camping stuff. Having a roof rack eliminates this problem, but introduces the worry of the van's load capacity, which I will look into.

It also allows me to go back to my previous idea of an Opti - which it's going to have to be by the way. Otherwise, is an Opti able to be lateen rigged? I'd like this, but if it's not possible, how will I rig one?
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Old 18-02-2018, 08:43   #28
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A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan, I used to carry a 14’6” Dolphin Sr (Sunfish type) on the roof of my 1971 VW camper. No worries.
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Old 18-02-2018, 09:39   #29
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

Ryan:

The weight of an OPTI is 80 lbs, so a Poojoe van can certainly carry it on racks. The weight is set by Class Rules. The question would be: Can you, by yourself, get it up there? And down again? Without damaging the car?

You can certainly fit her with a lateen rig - but why would you? For this particular purpose a lateen rig is NOT as good or as handy as the specification sprit rig. Unless you have the sprit rig specified by the rules you'll cut yourself off from the opportunity to race against other OPTIs and thereby learn the finer points of sailing.

Some of us wondered, seeing your first post, if your principal objective was to learn to build a dinghy, or whether you saw home-building as a way to save some money. If the latter, you'd be disappointed.

As others have pointed out, you can very often find "ready to go" OPTIs on the InterNet for very little money, or even for free.

TP.
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Old 18-02-2018, 11:57   #30
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Re: A beginner, a build and rig questions

So to put to rest the continuing mention of buying a sailboat instead of making it I should mention that my boat has to be made myself because I would like to fish from it too.

So obviously it would be impossible to fly fish from the back of a sailboat, what with the sails and rigging in the way. So my idea is, so long as the mast is removable from an Opti, to make some removable rowlocks for it.

If this is possible I could go out sailing, then take off the rigging and slip on my rowlocks, then head out fishing, or vice versa. I could also sell the rowboat I have to make up some money for building the Opti.

So the question is, is the mast and all the rigging removable?

The reason I won't be getting a bigger boat even now that I know one would fit on the rack is because of material costs.
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